Dumble (Ford 2) again....

<<The new Q1.02 Bludo Ld2 is a step closer to what I'm up to - gain-, tone- (after some tweaks) and feelwise. I love to have the fulll control of dynamics just in my hands, with an amp that is very close build to the breaking poiint where your playing is the trigger for positive feedback.>

Hi Paco, glad you are back and I'm glad you like the latest firmware. It's the Bludotone Ojai Lead Channel but with the pre-amp boost off, so you get more of the Skyline tonestack thing, I prefer it it for more refined (rather than going for "unrestrained!") lead playing myself.

I'm hoping Cliff will next add the Bludo Ojai Clean Channel w/out the pre amp boost (the current one with PAB "on" has a lot of gain that is hard to dial back out if you want crisper cleans, and the Blud Ojai clean is among the best I've heard)...

I know Cliff now has some accurate schematics and info needed to G3 a model of a Steel String Singer and 70's Dave Lindley/Lowell George style Dumble as well, but he's pretty busy with other things (like Axe-8) but hopefully he will fit in at some point, so grateful that he has done what he has to date!

Be great if he can model your amp as well, look forward to playing/hearing that one day!
[/QUOTE]

Austinbuddy-
Curious about you mentioning Cliff modeling the Bludo Ojai Clean channel w/out the boost engaged. Would this be closest to how Robben Ford is using his Dumble these days, playing almost everything with a clean tone (sometimes a slight boost)? I saw him here in Austin at One World Theater last year (small tour w/ Larry Carlton) and really enjoyed his tone and sound.. I prefer what he's doing more recently to most of his prior material and tones (generally speaking). I really dig the tone he has in this video (Fair Child) using the Epiphone Riviera:
 

Austinbuddy-
Curious about you mentioning Cliff modeling the Bludo Ojai Clean channel w/out the boost engaged. Would this be closest to how Robben Ford is using his Dumble these days, playing almost everything with a clean tone (sometimes a slight boost)? I saw him here in Austin at One World Theater last year (small tour w/ Larry Carlton) and really enjoyed his tone and sound.. I prefer what he's doing more recently to most of his prior material and tones (generally speaking). I really dig the tone he has in this video (Fair Child) using the Epiphone Riviera:
[/QUOTE]


I thought Ford boosted the clean side of the Dumble and did not use the lead side at all..?
zen drive and other pedals of the like.

I dont play the Dumble much just enough to get good dry tracks for source reference..
But when I did play it I used an ABY box to be able to get straight in boost tone on lead side
and or boost the clean side of the amp and have option to get that sound and straight in Dumble lead sound
at same time..

You could clearly still hear both sides and get two Dumble lead sounds one straight in one boosted through clean side.
If I did not want straight in at all Id just kick off the ABY pedal where its one side or the other..

This can be done with a two channel amp Im not sure if Paco's build is cascading or a two channel build
but it if does have independent channels thats a nice trick.

You can even use two ABY boxes and be able to stack pedals before the clean side
to blend vibe and boost pedals or say clean boost ep3 pedal and chorus or something for a boosted clean sound
if both ABY pedals were setup where you can hit one button and use either side or both at same time.

if I wanted straight in boosted Dumble lead side on and a driven clean side using dirt boxes and maybe some modulation
that could still be done using 2 ABY boxes and some clever pedal placement.

Honestly I think Ford is never using the amp with boost on.
I think he does all of that using pedals before the clean channel and he never hits the boost on the Dumble.
Just from the sound he gets vs the boosted Dumble sound to me thats what it sounds like...

Not sure if Pacos 6v6 amp has two channels or cascades but if it does have two independent channels
thats how to get around that and still be able to use both lead and clean boosted side at the same time.

If I want a wall of sound lead and im using that 50 watt amp thats what I do use an aby box
and then I get an non effected lead sound which might not have any delay or anything on it just
pure Dumble lead sound.

I dont think Ford ever uses the boosted Dumble sound not from hearing his sounds..
That amp is 100 watts and it would be quite boomy..

The 6v6 however would not be 100 watts and might sound even sweeter at lower volumes.

So if you are trying to get Ford sound using 6v6 you might do the same approach
and use pedals..

I thought his amps were 100 watts and 6l6...
 
Tex:

Well Robben's tone truly is in his hands, not the amp. He sounds like Robben through anything he plays through. Give him a Super Reverb and he sounds like Robben.

I too was at that Austin show (first set only) with Robben and Larry Carlton at the One World Theater, and seen Robben play quite a few times and had two opportunities to chat up Rick Wheeler his guitar tech and front of house guy about little details (yes I know what preamp and power tubes are used in the Dumble! Believe it or not, Rick said they are ALL JJs!). Rick is simply a prince of human being BTW.

On your point: it depends on the room I think, as to how he approaches using the Dumble. If it's a small venue (as One World is) he's not gonna put the Dumble on 5, and he's more likely to use clean channel and then use the Zen Drive (and/or sometimes the Pre-amp boost) in combination for leads, or paired with certain guitars, as using the PAB will help emphasize mids.

He does use a clean boost too -- a Vertex, and (I have one too) it is a very transparent boost that adds virtually no color to the original sound, just makes it louder. There is a YouTube video somewhere of Robben demo'ing that pedal you can check out. He does not use the Dumblelator any more.

I've seen him play bigger gigs, and he definitely uses the lead skyline overdrive channel at times in bigger venues -- when he can get the amp up around 5 for master volume to make it really work and open up.

I saw him play the Hamilton Theater here in DC, and with his tele on bridge pickup, in that venue his tone was surprisingly bright even 20 yards from the stage (with his cabinet pointed at me I could hear lots of treble right off the cap!). For cleans, his tele really marries the Dumble for rhythm sounds, and I know he has stated when recording he likes to use Les Pauls for leads and gets a thicker, creamier thing for those sounds (that's not as bright).

I'm not an expert and am sure there are exceptions to all of this, or instances where he does it different. I'm just sharing what I know or have observed in person. I love the way he plays! I've been too busy to do any clips to show off the Ojai and cabs, but I have some decent jam tracks and with Cab Pack 17 I produced of those kinds of cabs, I can get damn close to many of his key tones...enough to inspire and make me happy anyway!

Cheers!
 
Dear Tex: My build is not based on a existing amp - alltrough it shares the same basic topology in the preamp as Mr.D : Preamp with tone stack in front, voltage divider, overdrive circuit. Single channel with a 3 positions voicing switch. There were basic calculations done regarding the power supply, the filtering and for the DC (and AC) bias points of all gain stages. The rest and tone stack voicing is done by ear......

Speakers: The thing is voiced with Celestion Vintage30s, Celestion K100 or the Celestion C90/Lead 80s doing a great job too.

My design is single ended, no phase inverter needed - 6V6 and EL34, both working great with the OT with a Ra of approx. 5k

I use F+T as reservoir caps only, but thanks for your tip - I'll test the jensen gold against them as soon as I find a supplier for them in europe - none of my fav suppliers had them in stock ;)
 
Tex:

Well Robben's tone truly is in his hands, not the amp. He sounds like Robben through anything he plays through. Give him a Super Reverb and he sounds like Robben.

I too was at that Austin show (first set only) with Robben and Larry Carlton at the One World Theater, and seen Robben play quite a few times and had two opportunities to chat up Rick Wheeler ............

Thanks for the reply austinbuddy- you covered most of what I was assuming.. I've seen various stuff on-line showing RF's board with various drive/boosts (Vertex, COT 50, Zendrive).. I'm guessing what I hear in that video I linked above is the clean side of his Dumble turned up well enough (seems like a fair size room) w/ him hitting either the PAB or maybe the Vertex, etc. for the lead part. Anyway, I dig that tone and more of the clean stuff he's been doing lately. I've used various Fender amps for years and realize what he's getting there is basically a good Fender "clean" tone and the rest is his hands and some great sounding guitars. But I really dig that tone he's getting.. I've only more recently started getting into Robben more so- wasn't really a fan for many years and I'm still not all that into some of his material that gets noted for it's guitar tone.
 
Hmm well I used PM for a reason so much for that...
Lesson learned..

private message means private message.

THANKS ALOT PACO
WTF ?
:mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
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Hmm well I used PM for a reason so much for that...
Lesson learned..

private message means private message.

THANKS ALOT PACO
WTF ?
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

???? There was no private message - you had written to my profile which everyone is able to read who is a member of this community (I even was able to read your "private message" to Cliff, everyone can. So please - before accusing me here for no reason, get familiar with the terms "private message".

Bye

I'm so sick of playing the idiot for everyone. Better staying out of messageboards with all the negative stuff, sick of it....
 
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Thanks for the reply austinbuddy- you covered most of what I was assuming.. I've seen various stuff on-line showing RF's board with various drive/boosts (Vertex, COT 50, Zendrive).. I'm guessing what I hear in that video I linked above is the clean side of his Dumble turned up well enough (seems like a fair size room) w/ him hitting either the PAB or maybe the Vertex, etc. for the lead part. Anyway, I dig that tone and more of the clean stuff he's been doing lately. I've used various Fender amps for years and realize what he's getting there is basically a good Fender "clean" tone and the rest is his hands and some great sounding guitars. But I really dig that tone he's getting.. I've only more recently started getting into Robben more so- wasn't really a fan for many years and I'm still not all that into some of his material that gets noted for it's guitar tone.

Yes! Go check out the album "TigerWalk" or the live "Soul on Ten" for great guitar tones and playing by Robben Ford, or the DVD The Paris Concert. He's a master player and it's really a joy to hear what he coaxes out the equipment he uses, and still keeps the rig pretty simple.

I'm fond of a Lowell George quote from guitar player magazine about his Dumble: "It's my favorite amp, I love it, it's like a Fender made right." In the modern age, it might be better said "It's like a Fender on Steroids." The Bludotone skyline clean (non preamp boost) in my real life Ojai is the loveliest Fender-licious clean I know of. Put it with a good Tele neck pickup and you just want to play all day, every note and chord sounds awesome. The Dumble Clean in the AXE Fx is also really really great and close, it sound little tighter to my ears in another wonderful way.

I once got to play around at stage volume with a Dumble by a very "famous player" -- its was a Ripper model -- and the Clean was different than my Ojai, really beautiful; it was very fundamental note-focused and "beamy" in a positive rather than negative sense of the word - it really projected each note. The player mostly used that sound and then would click the pre-amp boost for crunching it up for a gritty lead tone. But I HATED the same amp's overdrive channel, it sounded horrible! I could not believe it.

As usual, Cliff has a really valid point:, there is too much over-the-top much hype or mysticism about these amps. I suppose I am guilty of some of that, given my enthusiasm for their sound. They are voiced to mids punching through yet somehow present an pretty even EQ response across bass/mid/treble, and sound great in certain kind of players hands. If you play with a lot of dynamics and touch sensitive, the ones I've played are very responsive to how to you attack/hit the amp, which is what sold me when I first heard and played a Bludotone Ojai at a guitar show in Austin. But I would not use them for power chord rock or most classic rock.

The main thing for me is, how great is it that we live in a time as guitar players that a genius can create an AXE Fx and then put in amp models that are rare and impossible to acquire, making those tones available to the playing masses? It's tone democracy, and I think it's a wonderful thing. That's why I did Cab Pack 17 "Buddy's Boutique," I just wanted to add the other elements - Cab IRs- necessary to get these tones many of us love, and can now get ourselves with a little tweaking. I'm not doing any other cab packs, this was just my little contribution to the greater cause, and it shows you how much Fractal Audio rocks that they see the big picture and this niche that needed to be filled, and let me play a little to do that.
 
[
As usual, Cliff has a really valid point:, there is too much over-the-top much hype or mysticism about these amps. I suppose I am guilty of some of that, given my enthusiasm for their sound. .

This thread is not about hype neither about mysticism. And it's a shame that everything goes this way, just because we talking about a dumble or a d-style amp. Marco was at my place this weekend, he wittnessed first hand what I was talking about all the time. He heard the amp, how the sound rises after the pick attack, the flip, the feel and endless sustain. If people think this is bullocks, visit me, try for yourself or please stand quiet. my enthusiasm is not made by hypes and mystification and I'm not fall for all these hypes as most guys also when talking about modifications. I simply do what people want to hear and I can show them what they get before we do it. That is pure honest customer service no hype.....no NOS, no mojo parts, no funky stuff - just pure customer service.

If my wishes would receive the same attention than a simple DC coupled CF, maybe I wouldn't start a thread asking. If people always need to proof me being wrong, I get the idea they were either not able to do or don't want this happend. Fine.....but then I don't need to stay here
 
Yes! Go check out the album "TigerWalk" or the live "Soul on Ten" for great guitar tones and playing by Robben Ford, or the DVD The Paris Concert. He's a master player and it's really a joy to hear what he coaxes out the equipment he uses, and still keeps the rig pretty simple.

I'm fond of a Lowell George quote from guitar player magazine about his Dumble: "It's my favorite amp, I love it, it's like a Fender made right." In the modern age, it might be better said "It's like a Fender on Steroids." The Bludotone skyline clean (non preamp boost) in my real life Ojai is the loveliest Fender-licious clean I know of. Put it with a good Tele neck pickup and you just want to play all day, every note and chord sounds awesome. The Dumble Clean in the AXE Fx is also really really great and close, it sound little tighter to my ears in another wonderful way.

I once got to play around at stage volume with a Dumble by a very "famous player" -- its was a Ripper model -- and the Clean was different than my Ojai, really beautiful; it was very fundamental note-focused and "beamy" in a positive rather than negative sense of the word - it really projected each note. The player mostly used that sound and then would click the pre-amp boost for crunching it up for a gritty lead tone. But I HATED the same amp's overdrive channel, it sounded horrible! I could not believe it.

As usual, Cliff has a really valid point:, there is too much over-the-top much hype or mysticism about these amps. I suppose I am guilty of some of that, given my enthusiasm for their sound. They are voiced to mids punching through yet somehow present an pretty even EQ response across bass/mid/treble, and sound great in certain kind of players hands. If you play with a lot of dynamics and touch sensitive, the ones I've played are very responsive to how to you attack/hit the amp, which is what sold me when I first heard and played a Bludotone Ojai at a guitar show in Austin. But I would not use them for power chord rock or most classic rock.

The main thing for me is, how great is it that we live in a time as guitar players that a genius can create an AXE Fx and then put in amp models that are rare and impossible to acquire, making those tones available to the playing masses? It's tone democracy, and I think it's a wonderful thing. That's why I did Cab Pack 17 "Buddy's Boutique," I just wanted to add the other elements - Cab IRs- necessary to get these tones many of us love, and can now get ourselves with a little tweaking. I'm not doing any other cab packs, this was just my little contribution to the greater cause, and it shows you how much Fractal Audio rocks that they see the big picture and this niche that needed to be filled, and let me play a little to do that.

I've only plugged into a Dumble once in my life- it belonged to Stephen Bruton and was a very brief thing between sets at one of his gigs (I played earlier that night). The guitar was his '59 335, which was an unreal sounding instrument, and I was far more infatuated w/ the guitar than the amp in the moment. But the tone and feel/response of the amp was killer. He switched from clean to dirt while I played it and it was immediately appealing to me- again though, the guitar may have had as much or more to do with that. But it immediately hit me as being a particularly great sounding "Fender" tone.. which are the amps I've owned/played the most over the years.. so my only experience playing a Dumble was a positive one. I've played a few Dumble-inspired amps here or there but only briefly and not long enough to form a strong opinion on them. I'd love to put more time into it, but the Axe does what I want/need these days. One other "Fender" type amp I would love to own though is a Jim Kelley..
 
Paco, as I see it, your frustration comes from the fact that you’ve mislabeled your posts. You seem to have an idealized guitar sound in your head, the origin of which is frankly unclear. You’ve built a DIY amp that captures this tone, which is an amazing feat. How many can do that?

The problem for many of us out here is that you relate all this to the D/sound or D/style or D/amps. None of this is the case. As you state, your DIY amp doesn’t correspond to any known Dumble. And as a listener, your audio samples don’t correspond to the sound of any well-known D/player. So why the insistence of D/this or D/that?

This doesn’t diminish what you do, but you should call your DIY piece what it is: “Paco’s/style” or “the P/style special” or “Paco’s note flipper” or whatever.

And what do I know about it? I have played and set up Dumble Overdrive Specials (yes, the plural is correct. I used to tech in Room 335 a long time ago). I’ve traveled the west coast and Europe listening to my favorite D/players for decades whenever I get the chance. I’ve never owned one myself, but I have owned an Axe FX II since FW9.
 
Glad my amp does not correspond to any known D, just because that is what it is - no DIY, it's my own designed amp, based on the D paradigm. I said that a hundert times and was overlocked at least a hundert times too...... ;

I'm talking about various details and basic things regarding gain structure....D and of corse - instead of being supported by those who share the same love as I do, I got trashed or decorated spreading myths or hype by them. Very lovely.


PS: I run a professional amp repair & modification workshop, providing service and real time mods for many local distributions, dealers and musicians. You can call it what you want, I simply don't care anymore.
 
while other thinks to put their experience working for famous artists in the front something which they didn't earn, they were just at the right time at the right place (which is different than being at the wrong place all the time) , I will post some of my favorites here which have all something in common tone and feelwise.



PJ Brutzman and Scott rippin the blues.....
 
@ Tex: I guess the whole world had read this, since it's on the front page of this forum since last friday visible for the public (you even don't need to be logged in to read it actually) ! So much for your understanding of the term "private message".

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