Dumble (Ford 2) again....

Cliff: Maybe you are just not using the correct cables to get the full Mojo. Make sure you use the directional kind, they sound so much better.
 
Same here....and I can do this as I want - with two 12AX7, a 6V6 and a 5Y3 inside. And for the rest - I'm out. It's BS here so t isn't worth talking about. It will never happen.
This makes me sad for you Paco. I hope you and Cliff can work together someday to create a model you both love. I hope I misread, but "I'm out" seems as though you are leaving the forum. I hope that isn't the case my friend, I enjoy the knowledge you share and I love your playing.
 
I didn't say they're bad amps, they just don't justify all the hype and ridiculous prices. $50K for a Dumble is stupid. They're good amps and the voicing appeals to a certain type of player. They aren't my cup of tea. I like the tone but don't care for the feel. IMO the AC load line is poorly chosen. The preamp tubes go too asymmetric for midrange frequencies. Again IMO. Also I don't like the tone stack design. And the fx loop design is among the worst I've ever seen in an amp. The mysterious "Dumbleator" is a hack to fix the poor fx loop design. The fx loop has so much output impedance that any cable more than a few feet long causes excessive high frequency roll-off. So he designed a buffer (in a 19" rack box), called it a Dumbleator and everyone rejoiced. The fact is the whole purpose of the Dumbleator is to compensate for a crappy fx loop.

Now let's open one up. They're full of Radio Shack and NTE parts. In other words: garbage. $50K for an amp using some of the cheapest, poorest quality components made. Uh, okay. Oooooh but there's black goop all over the Formica circuit board. Formica. You know, the stuff they used for countertops in the 70's. With all the money he was charging for the amps you'd think he could splurge for some real FR-4 rather than using a hunk of leftover Formica from when they remodeled his kitchen. At least mine has simulated woodgrain Formica. I'm sure that helps add mojo to the tone.

Oh, and if you get an EL-34 version make sure you wear oven mitts when handling the amp after use. The power transformer is incorrectly chosen which causes it to overheat due to the extra heater current. But it's okay because it's a Dumble and he doesn't make mistakes. The underspec'd power transformer is all part of the mojo.

He's also full of crap with his "fragile harmonics" nonsense. Alan Philips of Carol-Ann can design circles around the guy and won't spew any of the voodoo crap and secret handshake bs.

It's audiophile bs applied to amps. Oooooh these $500 power cords sound better because they "reduce micro-distortions". What's a micro-distortion? I asked a cable manufacturer the same thing. He said it was a distortion so small that it couldn't be measured. I'll let you think about the absurdity of that statement.

Thank you Cliff, I understand your perspective much better now.
 
And the fx loop design is among the worst I've ever seen in an amp. The mysterious "Dumbleator" is a hack to fix the poor fx loop design. The fx loop has so much output impedance that any cable more than a few feet long causes excessive high frequency roll-off. So he designed a buffer (in a 19" rack box), called it a Dumbleator and everyone rejoiced. The fact is the whole purpose of the Dumbleator is to compensate for a crappy fx loop.

Here comes it. The Fx loop design is in fact very poor - in fact it's what most other companies did back in the days - just adding a simple loop between pre and power amp. I guess it wasn't planed to get a FX loop into the amp, so the fx loop was just an additional for those who like to have one. The high frequency roll off is necessary for the tone. So I added a simple low pass filter between pre and power amp back in the days when modify the Boogie and make it variable on my revoiced champ and going even further.......

I don't care about "magic" parts and all these idealized amp fantasy mojo either...but liking the concept makes me a believer in all these terms, huh? Sure....the world is just black and white.....

Regarding building quality - mmh, I can't tell - never saw a original D from the inside - don't need too - but they were far better build than some other great examples which didn't last that long.....
Dumble never sold an amp for 50k - his price range was 2195 - 5000$ in the earlier 90s each, depending how fast you needed your ordered amp - 50-100k is was the market and the hype created by collectors did to it.......
So with all respect, your post remain as a verbal demolition of an amp you obviously don't like. Fine......
 
This makes me sad for you Paco. I hope you and Cliff can work together someday to create a model you both love. I hope I misread, but "I'm out" seems as though you are leaving the forum. I hope that isn't the case my friend, I enjoy the knowledge you share and I love your playing.

No, I "wanted" to stay out of the BS theme. Cliff has a huge knowledge and does a awesome job with the axefx, but I'm not agree with him in certain points regarding the D. Of corse it did not helped that I miss-guided my own calculation here, regarding the fact that I did something myself which actually does sound as it should IMO. It's not based on a clone or on pure guessing - but I'm just super busy and now spending the night to watch the messageboard instead of counting some sheeps (ZzzzzZzzzzz)......Cliff doesn't need my input, since he already knows what he needs to know - I'm doing what I'm doing and he doesn't need me - he knows everything he needs and if not he's got other guys who help him......so if he doesn't like the concept of the amp, then I'm not expecting a better solution anydays from now.

Not leaving the board, just not posting about the D again. As I said, this was my last attempt.....and I keep my promises.
 
I didn't say they're bad amps, they just don't justify all the hype and ridiculous prices. $50K for a Dumble is stupid. They're good amps and the voicing appeals to a certain type of player. They aren't my cup of tea. I like the tone but don't care for the feel. IMO the AC load line is poorly chosen. The preamp tubes go too asymmetric for midrange frequencies. Again IMO. Also I don't like the tone stack design. And the fx loop design is among the worst I've ever seen in an amp. The mysterious "Dumbleator" is a hack to fix the poor fx loop design. The fx loop has so much output impedance that any cable more than a few feet long causes excessive high frequency roll-off. So he designed a buffer (in a 19" rack box), called it a Dumbleator and everyone rejoiced. The fact is the whole purpose of the Dumbleator is to compensate for a crappy fx loop.

Now let's open one up. They're full of Radio Shack and NTE parts. In other words: garbage. $50K for an amp using some of the cheapest, poorest quality components made. Uh, okay. Oooooh but there's black goop all over the Formica circuit board. Formica. You know, the stuff they used for countertops in the 70's. With all the money he was charging for the amps you'd think he could splurge for some real FR-4 rather than using a hunk of leftover Formica from when they remodeled his kitchen. At least mine has simulated woodgrain Formica. I'm sure that helps add mojo to the tone.

Oh, and if you get an EL-34 version make sure you wear oven mitts when handling the amp after use. The power transformer is incorrectly chosen which causes it to overheat due to the extra heater current. But it's okay because it's a Dumble and he doesn't make mistakes. The underspec'd power transformer is all part of the mojo.

He's also full of crap with his "fragile harmonics" nonsense. Alan Philips of Carol-Ann can design circles around the guy and won't spew any of the voodoo crap and secret handshake bs.

It's audiophile bs applied to amps. Oooooh these $500 power cords sound better because they "reduce micro-distortions". What's a micro-distortion? I asked a cable manufacturer the same thing. He said it was a distortion so small that it couldn't be measured. I'll let you think about the absurdity of that statement.
there's so much epicness in that post, I don't even know where to begin...
 
For lead or gain tones it is still pretty great (really cuts through a band at high volumes in voicing) but it means the clean channel is pretty gainy. So here are some tips, some of this is in the Amp Wiki too.

Paco would already know this, but for other thread readers, for the Bludo CLEAN amp, take the tone stack from "default" and replace it with either the Skyline or Skyline Deep tonestack.

Next, set the master volume to 5 (it has a brite cap on it, so the louder the master, the less trebly; Ford sets his around 5). Next, set the Drive control to literally 1 or 1.5 - pretty low, and the guitar input gain control to 0.5. (Think about how Robben constantly uses that volume pedal to control the amount of guitar signal going into the amp...this gives you some room).

Now you have a very nice sounding Dumble Fender on Steroids with mids clean, with Bass at 5, Mids at 3-5, treble at 5, presence at 3-5. Jack up the Level output volume to compensate for the lower gain settings. Pair it with a G12-65H speaker. Cab Pack 17 has many choices (full disclosure, I produced 5 of the 6 Cabs in that Cab Pack). The BludoMix Cab in factory firmware is a 1x12 Alnico dual port cab, and will sound good but perhaps a tad darker (great for Jazz) on clean sounds than the G12-65H will.

Now, if you like, put a Zen drive in front on the BludoClean amp....or a boost...and listen to how that clean channel wakes up fast for grittier leads and touch-responsiveness.

For BludoLead, take the Lead default amp values. Put the Master Volume on 5. Put drive at 4-5 and Overdrive at 4-5, and experiment with the tone stack swaps above. If you want the amp to feedback effortlessly on a note, raise the overdrive setting higher combined with the gain, provided you have sufficient volume coming out your speakers to hit your guitar pickups in a reinforcing loop, it will do it! Throw a boost or Zen drive on that, if you like...

Cliff is getting some more detailed, verified schematic-type info on Bludotone/other Dumble-style amps along with corresponding G3 measurements, and while he is super super busy with other more pressing things things these days, I am told one day he will put the BludoClean/BludoLead of regular Skyline, G3'd, into the firmware and perhaps a few other Dumble-style amp as surprises, we can look forward to that when he reaches it on his monumental "to do" list!

But we've never had it so lucky...all these boutique amps, awesome.

Thank you very much for the tips, Austinbuddy. I've been messing with the Bludo models this days, and I can't wait to get back home to try those particular adjustments.

BTW: I'm enjoying your IR's from CabPack17 a lot.
 
I was told the HRM Hot Rubber Monkey Mod is Hot Rod Marshall.
One of the Mega Plx amps is owned by the Burst Brother
the other sits in the capitol records studio ....

The person that owned 0057 which Carlos bought directly from
was at Dumbles house and heard and saw the Mega Plx he said it was the most lush creamiest
Marshal sounding amp he had ever heard or played but this was late night and they could not open it up
volume wise so it was kept at a low volume..

0057 was the overdrive reverb which is basically what id requested to be made..
I like Plate reverb with them more so and found out after the fact...

Live and learn right ?

@ Cliff I indeed found the hi lo section and I converted k to HZ
Input those in each respective spot and instantly found another keeper sound
which is more SSS then ODS sounding..

So in fact it is science of sound and you can indeed find your grail sounds..

In my case I liked two filter settings on the SSS
So I just input those on the ODS clean amp I built up
and viola ...
 
No, I "wanted" to stay out of the BS theme. Cliff has a huge knowledge and does a awesome job with the axefx, but I'm not agree with him in certain points regarding the D. Of corse it did not helped that I miss-guided my own calculation here, regarding the fact that I did something myself which actually does sound as it should IMO. It's not based on a clone or on pure guessing - but I'm just super busy and now spending the night to watch the messageboard instead of counting some sheeps (ZzzzzZzzzzz)......Cliff doesn't need my input, since he already knows what he needs to know - I'm doing what I'm doing and he doesn't need me - he knows everything he needs and if not he's got other guys who help him......so if he doesn't like the concept of the amp, then I'm not expecting a better solution anydays from now.

Not leaving the board, just not posting about the D again. As I said, this was my last attempt.....and I keep my promises.


Yes, please keep your promise to not bitch about the specific Dumble you have created inside your head.
You have been whining for months and it has now become passive aggressive and insufferable.
 
This will get ugly in here once again, feel it......not again. I can't stand it.......

Everyone can be me from now on, which will get me locked away from the board
Username: PacoCasanovas
Pass: REMOVED by moderator.

bye.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I didn't say they're bad amps, they just don't justify all the hype and ridiculous prices. $50K for a Dumble is stupid. They're good amps and the voicing appeals to a certain type of player. They aren't my cup of tea. I like the tone but don't care for the feel. IMO the AC load line is poorly chosen. The preamp tubes go too asymmetric for midrange frequencies. Again IMO. Also I don't like the tone stack design. And the fx loop design is among the worst I've ever seen in an amp. The mysterious "Dumbleator" is a hack to fix the poor fx loop design. The fx loop has so much output impedance that any cable more than a few feet long causes excessive high frequency roll-off. So he designed a buffer (in a 19" rack box), called it a Dumbleator and everyone rejoiced. The fact is the whole purpose of the Dumbleator is to compensate for a crappy fx loop.

Now let's open one up. They're full of Radio Shack and NTE parts. In other words: garbage. $50K for an amp using some of the cheapest, poorest quality components made. Uh, okay. Oooooh but there's black goop all over the Formica circuit board. Formica. You know, the stuff they used for countertops in the 70's. With all the money he was charging for the amps you'd think he could splurge for some real FR-4 rather than using a hunk of leftover Formica from when they remodeled his kitchen. At least mine has simulated woodgrain Formica. I'm sure that helps add mojo to the tone.

Oh, and if you get an EL-34 version make sure you wear oven mitts when handling the amp after use. The power transformer is incorrectly chosen which causes it to overheat due to the extra heater current. But it's okay because it's a Dumble and he doesn't make mistakes. The underspec'd power transformer is all part of the mojo.

He's also full of crap with his "fragile harmonics" nonsense. Alan Philips of Carol-Ann can design circles around the guy and won't spew any of the voodoo crap and secret handshake bs.

It's audiophile bs applied to amps. Oooooh these $500 power cords sound better because they "reduce micro-distortions". What's a micro-distortion? I asked a cable manufacturer the same thing. He said it was a distortion so small that it couldn't be measured. I'll let you think about the absurdity of that statement.


With this all in mind... any chance of us getting a perfected FAS super Dumble model? :)
 
Yes, please keep your promise to not bitch about the specific Dumble you have created inside your head.
You have been whining for months and it has now become passive aggressive and insufferable.

Hey bud, you know we got a 'block' feature, right? Try blocking him instead of 'whining' about his 'whining' (I hope you can see the irony of your post now). No reason to see something that you don't want to see man. Or, why not try actually contributing to the conversation? We all might learn something. "Everyone you know, knows something you don't." - Bill Nye
 
Paco, I know you probably won't see this, but I hope you do return. Create a new account and make liberal use of the 'block' feature if you have to. I've been a member for over four years and that's what I had to do to find peace with the few that think they run the place. Just ignore them and go about my business. Thing to keep in mind Paco, if you let the dickheads push you away, they win. And those of us that follow you lose. Knowledge loses. Not worth it man. Look at your number of posts, look at the 'likes' you've received, the conversation you've initiated. Be the bigger man, come back. When you're ready. Those of us that want to improve and learn will welcome you. Until then, enjoy the break my friend.
 
Yes Paco please don't go.

I've always enjoyed reading your posts about how real amps operate and some of the "tricks" amp builders like yourself use to create good sounding amplifiers.

Also, your posted presets, although few, are stellar.
 
Well...this is going as well as most Dumble threads across the sphere.

For my part, I do really like the Carol Ann amp (Bonnamassa baby!) I did have some happy anticipation of the 'real' Dumble in our hands, but I just don't dig it. Not because of the model, but because I just don't pop wood on that tone. Just me, no problem with anyone who does.

FWIW, in my judgement Cliff bought a Dumble for us AND him...I'm sure he was curious as well. It's not like he was going to lose money on it.
 
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