Dumble (Ford 2) again....

PacoCasanovasOld

Fractal Fanatic
Hi all, Hi FAS

I recentely had some time to check out the Quantum 1.00 firmware. Absolutely great Fender Clean tones, tasty Marshall-esque sounds possible, ODS HRM or ODS with PAB sound good........but the ODS Non HRM (Ford 2) still need some love!
I bought Cab Pack 17, Cab Lab 3 and experimated with different cabs, micing positions, mics.....but it's not there, which is a bit of a bummer!
When I talk about "it", I mean the feel that the amp will jump in your face the moment you pick a note, the beautiful smack when you rake some notes - either on a LP or Strat type guitar, it still lacks of gain and I strongly believe it's just because of the interpretation that an non-HRM model just got the 4.7nF/220k network at the output of V2 instead of the internal HRM tonestack and the rest being identical to a HRM dumble. Which isn't true....
Most non-HRM types using a different resistor network between the clean pre amp and the overdrive circuit. It's almost a 1/10 voltage divider on the non-HRM and also influences V1b in terms of load, which causes the gain and feel difference between a HRM and a non HRM amp.

What I found from my experience modifying the clean preamp and the pre-gain tonestack between V1a and V1b - this plays a major role in terms of feel. I still keep my own re-design of the tone stack and the new bias points "company confidential" - but it would give the tone a very welcome change when FAS could re-calculate the divider network between clean preamp and the overdrive circuit in their DSP code.

There is another small and important thing between OD and PI circuit, which isn't show in any of these schematics floating around the web - some kind of a simple high cut filter - approx. 40k/4.7nF for example does a wonderful job between center tap of the master volume pot and input of the PI - it helps to smooth the tone and cut down the annoying highs... (only works for the overdrive channel but since the AF2 can't clone a two channel preamp in one amp type, it doesn't matter)

The tone and feel is completely independent of the power amp magic - just in case you wouldn't believe, I re-post my clip of my re-revoiced MesaBoogie Studio Preamp which has it all - tone and feelwise - even with a marshall solid state power amp.....
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/MesaWooly.m4v

I spend over a year to tweak and re-calculate my own interpretation and I'm so pleased with my results, I don't necessary need this in the AF2, but it would be nice for sure if it would come close to it for sure....

This has nothing to do with picking technique and special mojo.....it's a unique and highly enjoyable tone that make some guitarists very very happy. It's not for everyone and not everyone needs it. I still have some hope it will be able inside the AF2 someday, but this is my very last attempt to beg for this issue....


all the best to everyone
Cheers
P
 
I love the tone of your modified boogie.

It reminds me a bit of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap6odoC4itw
which is one of the best demo of a Dumble posted on the web.

Personally I'd love to see an amp model in the AF2 called Paco's Boogie. If Cliff had the time and inclination, and if you would separate yourself from that pre-amp for a little while, I think that would be a very worthy addition to the amp stable in the Axe FX.

Cheers back!
Pat
 
I'm right there with Pat. Your modified boogie is glorious. Wish Randal had built my MarkIIC with that structure. I, too, would like to see your sound in the AxeFX. I know I'd be stuck on that model for a long time. ;)

Cheers,

Lee
 
I agree your modifications sound very nice in your clips. Do you sell your modified Mesa's or is it just a personal thing? It would also be nice to have an AxeFx model based on them.
 
Man that's an incredible tone. You don't take it that direction, but there's a sound right at the beginning which makes me think Ry Cooder is about to bust out his nastiest slide stuff with that sound. I'm not sure about sending my preamp to Switzerland, but I have a Mesa Studio Preamp that I would LOVE to have that sound. I personally love the clean channel of the preamp and almost never use the drive, but if the drive sounded like that it would be the shizzle.
 
how can you judge the tone with smart phone or oder mobile device recordings? maybe there is flubby bass frequencies floating in the room...just saying, i really like the tones paco shares but i think we can have an idea of it when its recorded proparly.

note: i am listening the stuff in my studio...and the last dopbox video just sounds sterile and cold. i am pretty sure its not the way how its sounds in the room where paco recorded it,...its most probably the way its recorded and converted but again...i dont get it when experienced axe users say "its sounds great...", maybe they convert it to high resolution wav file in their minds :)
 
for a quick example my little 5W 6V6-based minimonster amp? :mrgreen http://casanovasolutions.ch/pacosipulamioverdrivemini.mp3

Visit my lab, play it by yourself on the modified boogie, my single channel 5Watt or the 5-10W (6V6 or EL34B) prototype single channel "Wooly" amp - but be warned, it's highly addictive! ;)

nice man, though still listening and didnt get to end but nice tone, really nice...also your playing is nice...and sometimes i am in switzerland and maybe one day i can visit your lab.
 
paco - really appreciate you sharing your knowledge here (not that i understand any of it!)

could you perhaps let us know which one of the dumble style amps in the axe is the one which you think sounds the best and what tweaks we can do to improve it?

i really liked one of the clips you posted several months ago and i also really like fremen's dumble tones here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRgNm1ayskI

Dear Simon

Fremen did an excellent job with his clip/preset - with the HRM version! ;) I think this matches Cliff's 213 ;)
At the moment I perfer the Bludotone Oaji or the Carol Ann OD2, both with pre-gain tone stack. The Carr tone stack works great with the OD2, this is something I discovered back in summer 2014 with Fw14, it still works under quantum. Of corse I enjoy the ODS HRM too.....but as told, the non-HRM type dumble (ODS Ford 2) need some love.

All the best
Paco
 
nice man, though still listening and didnt get to end but nice tone, really nice...also your playing is nice...and sometimes i am in switzerland and maybe one day i can visit your lab.

You're most welcome! Would be great to meet people from the forum in real life :D

all the best
Paco
 
So you're still using FW12.xx?

Cos you said once that FW12.04 IIRC is where the dumble was perfect.
 
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The tone and feel is completely independent of the power amp magic - just in case you wouldn't believe, I re-post my clip of my re-revoiced MesaBoogie Studio Preamp which has it all - tone and feelwise - even with a marshall solid state power amp.....
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/MesaWooly.m4v

I spend over a year to tweak and re-calculate my own interpretation and I'm so pleased with my results, I don't necessary need this in the AF2, but it would be nice for sure if it would come close to it for sure....

This has nothing to do with picking technique and special mojo.....it's a unique and highly enjoyable tone that make some guitarists very very happy. It's not for everyone and not everyone needs it. I still have some hope it will be able inside the AF2 someday, but this is my very last attempt to beg for this issue....
Uh nice. I like that tone. Uh...maybe shoot Cliff the schematic? :D
 
Is that a piece of plexi glass used to project the sound at your guitar? That feedback is glorious! I'd never leave the house.
 
Is that a piece of plexi glass used to project the sound at your guitar? That feedback is glorious! I'd never leave the house.

I believe, and Paco can correct me if I am wrong, that is used to direct the monitor output towards ear height rather than bouncing it off the floor.
 
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the non HRM has some very nice bloomy airy midrange blow between 250 - 400Hz. So sweet..... :)

And this is not happenening in Quantum right? :(

I wonder why the Non HRM model got worse. Maybe it's becasue at FW12.03b it was too ideal? And now that it's become more authentic, the flaws started to come out.?
 
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