Wish Dual Delay in series

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Wish List' started by Tahoebrian5, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. #21 DLC86, Jan 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
    DLC86

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    Sorry, for some reason I've read Timmons in the first words and entirely skipped your post. My bad! :D

    Anyway I think you're right but I don't get how you obtained that formula, could you please elaborate on that?

    Ps: now that I looked again at the diagram on the manual I think I got it ;)
     
  2. mr_fender

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    Yeah, the L>R feedback amount would depend on the Mix setting, not the L>L feedback amount. In the real pedals, it's the blend control (mix) that controls how much wet and dry goes to the next pedal. The first pedal's feedback is pretty much independent of that. The L>R feedback control is before the delay level and mix controls so it has to be set to reduce the wet signal going to the other delay by a proportionate amount.

    One thing that is different though is the mix law. In the Axe II, the dry level stays constant up to 50% mix. In the real DMM, that is not the case. The dry is reduced the more you turn the mix up so the overall signal level stays close to unity gain. In the Axe II, at 50% mix the overall signal level is potentially doubled (100% wet +100% dry as opposed to 50% wet +50% dry in the DMM). I think that's why Bakerman's formula is multiplied by 2 at the end, to compensate for the higher dry level in the Axe II.
     
  3. Bakerman

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    The mix law affects the value needed, but with the old mix law you wouldn't just lose the 2. You'd replace it with 1/(100 - mix%).
     
  4. DLC86

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    I suppose a good rule of thumb (to simplify) should be to set feedback L>R to the same value of its output level, so that the signal hitting the input of the second delay line has the same dry/wet ratio of what's coming out from the first delay line (that's what happens with 2 delays in series)
     
  5. Bakerman

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    That works if you set mix to 50% and adjust delay volume w/ level L/R parameters only. Otherwise you do need to account for mix % if going for an accurate match of 2 series delays.
     
  6. DLC86

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    Yes, I took that for granted cuz I always set mix at 50%.
     
  7. Bodde

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    This all seems a bit too complicated and devious to me. Better to use two delay blocks or the tape delay for it if you ask me. But to each his own.
     
  8. Bakerman

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    Tape delay is a bad choice for this because any feedback gets by both heads on the next pass. Delay 2 wouldn't feed back to delay 1 in an actual series routing.
     
  9. Bodde

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    I know but then if you really want it exactly you can use two delay blocks. I tried it with the tape delay yesterday and it sounds very similar. Don't forget to add some modulation to the repeats. With the low mix settings as how Andy Timmons uses it you will not notice much difference in a band mix. You will not notice such details in this case. Better to spend more time on his playing technique I think.

    But who knows maybe one day Fractal will come up with a true series delay algo. I would like that because my H9 also can't do this.
     
  10. Bakerman

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    You could also just turn up dual delay L>R feedback until it sounds good.

    Doing this in one block also simplifies keeping a natural decay when bypassing, or controlling input gain without altering the relative levels among repeats.
     
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  11. Tahoebrian5

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    It just occurred to me that the quad series delay in the multi delay block is actually 4 delays in series. This should work, just turn down the level on dly 3 and 4.
     
  12. Bakerman

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    Are you trying to get something like the Timmons example?

    Quad series won't send any dry signal directly to the second delay line, and you only get one feedback line. So it's not a very good choice if you're trying to match the delay heard in the Timmons clip.

    For the easiest way to match that, use dual delay configured as described in post #9.
     

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