Drive Pedal Heaven

I'm still trying to wean myself from pure Amp tone. Back in the day I wouldn't even think of adding a drive pedal into any decent Marshall Tube Amp and would always prefer to let it sing all on its own so to speak. Even now since using Fractal gear I find it difficult because the Amps sound pretty amazing on their own. I'm sure that there are plenty of decent applications for this although I've always been a purist when it comes to tone and I have it embedded in my mind that drives only do bad things to tone. Yeah, I definitely need help, and this thread has helped me to see a more broad realm of possibility. Thanks.
 
ESW said:
Interesting! I haven't seen a 3-transistor Colorsound Supa before. Does yours look like this one (https://www.coda-effects.com/2015/10/vintage-colorsound-supa-tonebender-1973.html)?

I have a big red JEN Jumbo Fuzz from '73 that elicits the same reaction. It's just a massive sounding fuzzbox. It's based on the V1 Big Muff, though.
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Sorry, slow reply, just did 6 days of no broadband after an electrical storm.

Yes, looked very similar, but mine was (I checked, for some weird reason, I sold it - I have kept a load of pedals I love far less) a mid-90's Steve Hackett Limited Edition reissue. I would have bought it in Macari's original shop in Charing Cross Road, London as well, home of Colorsound, ah well! I have a feeling I may have made a poor job of counting transistors. I checked out the video on Coda effects, and that is indeed the totally out of control wee beastie I remember. I will have an experiment with the Big Muff models in the Axe III and see if I can get the same kind of effect I remember. Big Muff with first clipping diodes removed would make sense - one of the loudest pedals I ever came across!

Liam
 
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myAxe,

I get where you are coming from entirely, but I have the exact opposite problem. For a lot of bands over the years I worked with a base tone of a Marshall, Hiwatt, Vox AC30 or Deluxe Reverb, generally just into breakup (apart from the Hiwatt!). To this I would add between 1 and 4 overdrive and fuzz pedals to drive the amp to different extremes (and I used a good range of modulation effects too). So with the Axe FX II XL I ended up using both Drive blocks with A and B channels available on each, and I know that I have been missing out on some amazingly lovely amp tones that I could just as easily have channel switched between. Then I set up the MFC-101 to effectively work like my GigRig pedalboard, and it is really good at it, but I know I have missed out on a lot of possibilities.

I am going to make a really big conscious effort, now that I have an Axe FX III and FC-12, NOT to just set an amp up how I love it and drop pedals in front of it. While getting around to the FC-12 I started playing at home with some more amp gain, and figuring out what I can do with the volume and tone controls on the guitar. And of course the answer turns out to be some subtlety and touch response that is really hard to achieve with the front end of the amp goosed by a high gain and dirty fuzz box.

While I attempt to get a handle on your world so far, I hope you get a chance to look into mine. I think we'll both learn something!

Liam
 
Also, while I think of it, 2 other drive heaven's that may not have been mentioned:

Boss BD2 Blues Driver. I love these into a fairly clean Fender amp, especially with Keeley mods. Interesting circuit, as the tone network is effectively a "preset" Fender tone stack. I tried to replicate with the Axe FX II, and got close, but not that close.

Also, did anyone mention the Klon Centaur yet? Basically a modded Tubescreamer and a clean boost in parallel, with a balance control that mixes between them. Maybe overrated, but a great sounding pedal. I have a clone I built somewhere (built a few for others that liked it too), and it had a long period as a pedalboard favourite.

Liam
 
I feel compelled to explain to some of the younger guys. When starting guitar in 1970, I was trying to emulate the great guitar/amp sounds on records. I had a 1966 Fender Bandmaster. The ‘rents weren’t about to buy me a Marshall stack. A salesman in NYC at Sam Ash talked me into a Big Muff (lucky me, still have my Ram’s Head). Yes, I had to tweak the settings for different songs when we performed, but it all worked as needed. The point is, it was impossible to use a Bandmaster, and sound like Gilmour, Frampton, Beck, Allman, Santana without learning and using drives and fuzzes. Over the years came more and more amps, but also more and more pedals. Thanks to Cliff, and his team at Fractal, I can model almost every amp under the sun, along with great cabinets, speakers, and pedals. They all have their sound! And yes, I also agree that I don’t necessarily need a drive pedal in front of a dimed plexi.

Actually, I just thought of something right now! There is one thing that’s missing. I can’t model the great recording engineers and producers. Can we get an Engineer/Producer Block (or IR)? I’d love a Tom Dowd!
 
skydog said:
Can we get an Engineer/Producer Block (or IR)?
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Great idea, but pretty soon there'd be requests for a global producer function or page because we'd need it on both the front and back end at a minimum. The engineer block would also be needed at almost every step of rig setup and recording so it would need to be global as well, or maybe a tab in each block that automagically makes adjustments.

To do it right though, each Axe should be tied to an AI network of uploaded producer/engineer consciousnesses along with the singularity that results from the quantum entanglement thereof. Cliff would be uploaded too who would heckle the "artists" who still don't know how to solve simple issues on the unit: RTFM or use your f'n engineer tab or producer global settings.
 
yyz67 said:
Great idea, but pretty soon there'd be requests for a global producer function or page because we'd need it on both the front and back end at a minimum. The engineer block would also be needed at almost every step of rig setup and recording so it would need to be global as well, or maybe a tab in each block that automagically makes adjustments.

To do it right though, each Axe should be tied to an AI network of uploaded producer/engineer consciousnesses along with the singularity that results from the quantum entanglement thereof. Cliff would be uploaded too who would heckle the "artists" who still don't know how to solve simple issues on the unit: RTFM or use your f'n engineer tab or producer global settings.
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This all sounds entirely reasonable to me. Further, with the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, Cliff has already implemented this feature, in universes where this waveform collapse has occurred in our favour. In fairness, this notion would be challenged by the Copenhagen interpretation. But it’s entirely possible, that those guys use a Kemper.
 
Budda said:
Yes it does.

Getting tones.

/Semantics
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Sorry, but that's not true.

Gain on an amp doesn't change the EQ of the signal going into the front of end of the amp. It also doesn't compare to the way the mix of wet/dry signals can come from a Drive.
 
unix-guy said:
Sorry, but that's not true.

Gain on an amp doesn't change the EQ of the signal going into the front of end of the amp. It also doesn't compare to the way the mix of wet/dry signals can come from a Drive.
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It is entirely true. Both do the same thing: provide an overdriven tone the player finds enjoyable. How they get there is different but the end goal is entirely the same. Hence the /semantics at the end.
 
It's like: preferring your partner 'as is' or with certain attire/adornments.

Some people are pretty discerning about one or the other (and the particulars thereof), while others might like some of both depending on situation or mood.
 
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