Drive Block

don_joe

Experienced
Hello dear forum fellows!

After owning an Axe FX II for a few months now, I can say that my tweaking skills and understanding of the sound has improved pretty decently. I found my favourite amps, IRs which go well with them, EQ settings and so on. But...what I can not find and dial in is a good drive in the drive block. I've tried them all and spend lots of hours. They just do not sound well to me...

The drive I'm talking about is a drive for metal music, lots of gain without lots of mud which I can't get rid of, even when I reduce the bass or whatever. For example, I used to play with a Marshall amp and a Digitech RP6 foot controller. RP6 is a simple device but has a better drive than anything I've tried out in the Axe FX (drive block). Is this block just underdeveloped in the Axe or am I missing something? I have nice presets with high gain amps but every experiment with the drive block was unsuccessful. Please help and share your experience.

Thanks.
 
Hello dear forum fellows!

After owning an Axe FX II for a few months now, I can say that my tweaking skills and understanding of the sound has improved pretty decently. I found my favourite amps, IRs which go well with them, EQ settings and so on. But...what I can not find and dial in is a good drive in the drive block. I've tried them all and spend lots of hours. They just do not sound well to me...

The drive I'm talking about is a drive for metal music, lots of gain without lots of mud which I can't get rid of, even when I reduce the bass or whatever. For example, I used to play with a Marshall amp and a Digitech RP6 foot controller. RP6 is a simple device but has a better drive than anything I've tried out in the Axe FX (drive block). Is this block just underdeveloped in the Axe or am I missing something? I have nice presets with high gain amps but every experiment with the drive block was unsuccessful. Please help and share your experience.

Thanks.

Maybe try to use an amp block as a preamp pedal as excellently detailed in this thread:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-like-bogner-pedals-you-got-them-already.html
 
I usually turn the tone pretty high and the drive quite low. I'll tweak the drive on either drive or amp block to get my desired gain. I hope this helps.
 
I can't hear the sound at the moment but I'll try it out this evening. Maybe I'll find another amp if this doesn't suit me well. I've played already with other amps as preamp drives, didn't find a desirable combination though. One question still remains here, why is the drive block that bad? For such a magic box, it's just pity that you can not use this block except for some crunch or middle/treble boost. Some serious distortion pedals would be a valuable asset here.

Thank you mesaboog, I'll experiment some more with your suggestion.
 
TS-808 - Drive @ 0, Tone @ 50-75%, Level to taste. This in front of FAS Modern 1 (Drive at 2-3, master @ 2-3), with a Marshall 1960 IR or whatever is working for you. If that doesn't work, try also using the low cut in the amp block or eqing out some lows BEFORE the amp block. If you have any low end left at that point start dialing it back in :) It really is dependent on the IR also. For tight metal playing, I also increase the pick attach and definition parameters a bit.
 
Thanks a lot. I'll listen to it a bit later, have no tone here. May I ask, which definition parameters? I have to admit, I haven't been playing with the additional parameters that much. Thanks again.
 
I have used Digitech pedals in the past and in my opinion they are a cheap imitation of what the Axe can produce.
This is not to criticize what sounds good to you but maybe you are just used to a particular sound that the Axe does not produce off the bat.
 
Thanks a lot. I'll listen to it a bit later, have no tone here. May I ask, which definition parameters? I have to admit, I haven't been playing with the additional parameters that much. Thanks again.

Its called the "definition" parameter and its in the amp block, a few pages in. Same with pick attack.
 
The drive I'm talking about is a drive for metal music, lots of gain without lots of mud which I can't get rid of, even when I reduce the bass or whatever.

Are you sure it's the drive that's responsible for creating or not clearing up (not sure which) the mud?

A lot of the time it boils down to the choice of IR (cab). IMO, most of the factory cabs have too much low end/low mids to be usable for modern high gain tones without serious EQing. Unfortunately, quite a few commercial IRs have this problem as well.

Could just be the amp you're using as well. A lot of the models have a ton of low end and low mids. Try the bass knob first. Don't be afraid to lower it way down (1-2 level). You can also use the low cut in the amp block (experiment with it- try raising it up higher than what you'd think) or drop the first and/or second sliders in the GEQ in the amp block.
 
1) what toolfanem said. For tight, rhythm playing in metal style, you don't need as much gain as you think. And with the new updates, you don't need to tweak as much either. Use your ears, not your eyes.

2) IR's. This is anywhere from 40-60% of your sound. In the cab block, I always turn low cut to 100-ish Hz on every single preset. Try with no mic first. If it's still muddy in the low end, then try an sm57 or 87a mic. Make sure your speaker size is exactly 1.000. Add room- I always add somewhere between 30-40%, depending on the amp. For hi-gain amps, I always turn motor drive to 5.00.

3) monitors/phones: this also determines how well (or not so well) you will hear exactly what is coming out of the AxeFx. Bad quality (notice I didn't say cheap) headphones or monitors will frustrate the crap out of anyone, bc you'll never hear everything clearly. What are you listening to your AxeFx through?


FAS Modern is pretty much gold for metal anything. Just put a ts808 or 808 mod in front with drive between 0-1.00, and the Cali cab with the low cut and lots of room. You shouldn't even have to touch the amp ctrls. If it still sounds bad, then your monitors are bad or your guitar pickups are crappy.

Hope this helps, man.
 
How are you trying to use the drive block? Are you running the AF2 into a traditional amp's preamp or into a model? If into a model:

amp preamp gain > pedal gain

IMHO, both in the Axe and in real life... If I had all the gear modeled in the Axe I would NEVER bother trying to get Metal levels of gain from a pedal. I'd just run Boost->Amp which is... what I do in the Axe. :)

So for me it goes:
TS808 or similar (Drive 0, Tone somewhere past noon, Level high) -> High Gain Amp.
 
Don't forget too that you don't necessarily need to use the drive block at all if you want to kick in from a clean tone to a metal tone. You can always x/y your amp for different settings. Or use two completely different amps with a foot switch to completely alter your tone altogether with different amp combinations for clean and dirty/metal sounds.

Getting more gain is much more than a drive block! That is the true beauty of this hardware. You can mix and match to your heart's content without lugging around sixteen amps/cabs and different effects (if you even need them).
 
Hello dear forum fellows!

After owning an Axe FX II for a few months now, I can say that my tweaking skills and understanding of the sound has improved pretty decently. I found my favourite amps, IRs which go well with them, EQ settings and so on. But...what I can not find and dial in is a good drive in the drive block. I've tried them all and spend lots of hours. They just do not sound well to me...

The drive I'm talking about is a drive for metal music, lots of gain without lots of mud which I can't get rid of, even when I reduce the bass or whatever. For example, I used to play with a Marshall amp and a Digitech RP6 foot controller. RP6 is a simple device but has a better drive than anything I've tried out in the Axe FX (drive block). Is this block just underdeveloped in the Axe or am I missing something? I have nice presets with high gain amps but every experiment with the drive block was unsuccessful. Please help and share your experience.

Thanks.

there are only 2 marshall types of drive blocks in the axe fx (shred dist based on the shredmaster pedal and the m-zone dist) and in my opinion both need a lot of work. now i will preface this by saying i only use the axe fx 2 for the effects into a tube amp- no amp or cab blocks. the only way i was able to get a halfway decent, marshall-esque type of tone was to stack the rat into the shred dist block. it took me a few hours and a few tweaks during gigs to dial it in right. it's still not 100% there but not being a high-gain player, it is close enough. i think the biggest weakness in the axe fx is the drive blocks- particularly the high gain blocks. it's amazing to think how many options there are in high gain amps in the axe fx and how few options there are in high gain drive blocks.
 
As suggested try to use the amp block as a drive pedal without the poweramp active. Will give you much better results.
 
make sure you mess with the drive and low cut of the drive block. I find that raising the low cut in the drive block takes mud away most of the time without having to delve into more advanced settings. Also, ensure you've made your sound as tight as possible without the drive engaged, this includes making sure you have the most suitable IR as well. The drive block will sound like crap engaged if your preset sounds bad/muddy to begin with.
 
Sorry for my late answer to your kind suggestions. Thank you all. You've all described several, very helpful approaches to try with.

It seems though that the drive block still needs some improvements. When I bought the Axe FX, I was for sure expecting more from it regarding the drive block. My opinion is that there is some work to do on it, meaning high gain metal drive/distortion with only one klick of a mouse. Not that I don't appreciate all the other cool stuff on Axe FX.

Thanks again.
 
Sorry for my late answer to your kind suggestions. Thank you all. You've all described several, very helpful approaches to try with.

It seems though that the drive block still needs some improvements. When I bought the Axe FX, I was for sure expecting more from it regarding the drive block. My opinion is that there is some work to do on it, meaning high gain metal drive/distortion with only one klick of a mouse. Not that I don't appreciate all the other cool stuff on Axe FX.

Thanks again.

You may want to rethink your approach to the drives as well... Meaning, dont rely on the drive pedal for the gain, rather really on the amp for gain and the drive for tone shaping. Not sure if its a "metal-zone" style sound your going for, but I have personally always preferred the sound of a high gain amp over a high gain pedal.

On a complete side note, one of the guitar players in my old band had a crappy amp for years, so he ended up buying my mesa trip rec and cab. He then proceeded to run the CLEAN channel with a metal zone in front of it! $3,500 amp/cab setup to use only the clean channel and a metal zone!?!?! To each his own I guess... but I just never understood it. There are a plethora of gain machines in the axe fx 2, I wouldn't personally get hung up on high gain drive pedals.
 
I never warmed up to any drive or disto pedals. In the Axe or on the floor. Somehow they all sound boxy to me and suck bandwidth. As such I think the Axe is terribly accurate.

I only use drives to push amps a bit more, like a solo boost. As long as they don't distort too much, the bandwidth is OK. That way I can get blistering distortion too. Just from the amp which is always way better for me than using the drive pedal for the drive into a cleanish amp.

Then again a lot of people have no problem with the drives.



Aside of the reference to the RP6, all that was said about the drives is that they sound bad and need improvement. That's a terribly imprecise statement. In what way do they sound bad and what is insufficient in them? What would need to be changed to make them better? What are you looking for?
 
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Use the peq and a null boost to get the desired frequency shaping and input boost. Start with ts808 low cut at 723hz and I typically like to cut highs at 3.2khz. Create a mid hump curve, boost into the amp as much as you like then re tweak the amp settings.
 
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