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Drive Block Status

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
Truly cool and exciting stuff Cliff.

As good as I think the current drives are, I'm excited about the re-work and upgrade for them, and mostly I'm hoping that this will bring the fuzz pedals closer to the tone, behavior and dynamic nature of real fuzz pedals.
Can you reveal if the fuzz pedals will benefit as much (or maybe even more) from this update as the normal drive pedals ??
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Truly cool and exciting stuff Cliff.

As good as I think the current drives are, I'm excited about the re-work and upgrade for them, and mostly I'm hoping that this will bring the fuzz pedals closer to the tone, behavior and dynamic nature of real fuzz pedals.
Can you reveal if the fuzz pedals will benefit as much (or maybe even more) from this update as the normal drive pedals ??

Given that even a real fuzz pedal can’t behave the same after a buffer, wireless et al., I don’t think there is a way for Cliff to get around that as even a 100% perfect emulation wouldn’t do it since the real pedal it would be emulating wouldn’t either.

Just the nature of certain fuzz pedals
 

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
Given that even a real fuzz pedal can’t behave the same after a buffer, wireless et al., I don’t think there is a way for Cliff to get around that as even a 100% perfect emulation wouldn’t do it since the real pedal it would be emulating wouldn’t either.

Just the nature of certain fuzz pedals
Since this is virtual pedals maybe the models of the fuzz pedals could be done in a way, where the fuzz "sees" a unbuffered signal and reacts accordingly.

I know some hi-end custom builders like Skrydstrup have "magic" boxes that will make a fuzz behave as if it recieves an unbuffered/directly form the guitar signal.
I'm quite that there is nothing magical about these "magic" boxes, but that they are just simple electronics that mimics the impedance ect. of a direct signal from an electric guitar
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Truly cool and exciting stuff Cliff.

As good as I think the current drives are, I'm excited about the re-work and upgrade for them, and mostly I'm hoping that this will bring the fuzz pedals closer to the tone, behavior and dynamic nature of real fuzz pedals.
Can you reveal if the fuzz pedals will benefit as much (or maybe even more) from this update as the normal drive pedals ??
You're going to be disappointed then. The problem is that the signal is buffered and there is no way to model the interaction of the pickups with the circuit.
 

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
You're going to be disappointed then. The problem is that the signal is buffered and there is no way to model the interaction of the pickups with the circuit.
Bummer, but thanks for answering my question and all you do.
I'm still very thankful for and excited about the update to the drive pedals.
 

George Koerich

Inspired
Cliff, will the update affect only drive pedals that use diode distortion or modelling for the others components (lvtube, silicon, ampops, etc) were also upgraded?
 

Surjikal

New here
I'm full on chomping. Thanks for the update! No chance we'd get a preview of that new firmware eh ;)

I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't mind too much if the blocks sound a bit different vs the real thing...
 

Freds55

Veteran
I can’t wait to hear what they sound like. I have used Boss pedals for ever, like the Hm2 metal Pedal, Cs3 compressor sustainener, Ge7 eq, and a Dd 2 delay my favorite.
I have played them through a Peavey stereo chorus 400 mainly. Sometimes other amps like my Marshall with built in effects (it rocks by itself).
I can’t wait to hear what these new pedals sound like keep up the good work Fractal keep on rockin :cool:
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Since this is virtual pedals maybe the models of the fuzz pedals could be done in a way, where the fuzz "sees" a unbuffered signal and reacts accordingly.

I know some hi-end custom builders like Skrydstrup have "magic" boxes that will make a fuzz behave as if it recieves an unbuffered/directly form the guitar signal.
I'm quite that there is nothing magical about these "magic" boxes, but that they are just simple electronics that mimics the impedance ect. of a direct signal from an electric guitar

You can build devices that are essentially pickup simulators, load boxes etc, which can change the impedance etc, and they can make a pedal “see” a passive pickup even if it’s behind a wireless unit. Problem is though that you can’t just roll your volume pot back slightly and clean up the fuzz. You could change the impedance, or some of these boxes have passive control pots like a pickup circuit, but you can’t really adjust them while playing.

That is the cool thing with certain fuzz, your guitar electronics interact with it and you can go from raging fuzz to spanking cleaning rolling the volume pot back just a touch.

It’s possible to match the tones in the Axe, as is, but not the dynamic interaction, but as Cliff said, can’t make that part work behind a buffer, at least not without extra hardware and not through software.

If you really like a vintage fuzz, no substitute than plugging your guitar right into one, idieally with some old carbon batteries

For darn near anything else though the Axe should be exceptional
 

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
You can build devices that are essentially pickup simulators, load boxes etc, which can change the impedance etc, and they can make a pedal “see” a passive pickup even if it’s behind a wireless unit. Problem is though that you can’t just roll your volume pot back slightly and clean up the fuzz. You could change the impedance, or some of these boxes have passive control pots like a pickup circuit, but you can’t really adjust them while playing.

That is the cool thing with certain fuzz, your guitar electronics interact with it and you can go from raging fuzz to spanking cleaning rolling the volume pot back just a touch.

It’s possible to match the tones in the Axe, as is, but not the dynamic interaction, but as Cliff said, can’t make that part work behind a buffer, at least not without extra hardware and not through software.

If you really like a vintage fuzz, no substitute than plugging your guitar right into one, idieally with some old carbon batteries

For darn near anything else though the Axe should be exceptional
I agree the Axe is exceptional, and the Axe III is the cornerstone of both my live and my studio rig.

Also I'm well aware of how certain fuzz pedals reacts dynamically to pick attack and volume pot adjustment as I've played professionally for over 2 decades now, and indeed almost always use an AM Surface NKT275, a vintage fuzz face and/or a few other fuzz pedals straight into my Axe for that exact reason.
That was indeed why I asked Cliff that question.
I was just hoping that Cliff once again had found a way to make the impossible become possible, as for many stages a wireless for the guitar is a must and prohibits that kind of dynamic interaction with the fuzz.
 

shatteredsquare

Forum Addict
found a way to make the impossible become possible
Boss ES-8 has selectable input buffer and output buffer, it switches them in or out mechanically (F A S T), you can have either/both engaged or disengaged, per preset. Engaged keeps the cleans from getting dull no matter what you run it through and disengaged it lets the fuzz get fuzzy.
 

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
Boss ES-8 has selectable input buffer and output buffer, it switches them in or out mechanically (F A S T), you can have either/both engaged or disengaged, per preset. Engaged keeps the cleans from getting dull no matter what you run it through and disengaged it lets the fuzz get fuzzy.
Several loop systems lets you decide whether you want a buffer in line or not, including the RJM mini effects gizmo that I sometimes have my fuzz pedals in before the Axe III input, but here we are talking about the virtuel fuzz pedals in the Axe, and whether they could model the real dynamic behavior of a real fuzz after the drive blok update (or ever), as that would mean
1) I could retire my real fuzz pedals for live use
2) I could always use a wireless guitar system with my Axe III
 

Rocket Brother

Forum Addict
Well, if the fuzz models in the Axe III gets on par with the real deal, I might put another exp pedal on the board to control the pedal gain/input and try that as a potential work around.
I realize that it's not absolutely the as the real volume pot interaction, but it might be close enough - has anybody tried that with the current fuzz pedals ??
 

1poorplayer

Forum Addict
I still prefer getting my distortion from the amp. I played professionally for 25 years and never in that time did I ever use a distortion/fuzz/drive/etc. pedal.
This shared preference was likely the cause of my many MANY amp purchases , over the years.
What is it that pushed you to delve into the drive blocks at this point then ?
Shared circuitry replication improvements with both the amp and pedal - I’m guessing ?
 
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