Dream Theater - The Astonishing

Listened to first cd, too much piano, too much breathy singing, too much trying to make story rather than good songs. I heard again like others too few riffs and now HERE WE GO MUTHA FUCKA'S moments, (which I love by the way, those moments). Like a lot of Fates Warning, longy proggy and teases of what could be, rather than what actually is...
 
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Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
:(

edit - so it's the 2nd listen through of this album. i still stand by what i said later in this thread, unfortunately.

but honestly, i think the main issue is that they are "Dream Theater." to me, this isn't Dream Theater. it's a new band. again, the performance and recording is excellent! but because it's "Dream Theater," i'm naturally expecting a certain thing. it hasn't been that for a while... and i actually felt this shift as far back as Octavarium. BCSL brought it back a bit, but then MP's departure changed everything completely.

so as DT, this doesn't do it for me. but as [insert new band name here], i like it much better.
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I didnt like some songs, but this is an amazing album non the less and more then what i was expecting. Not dissapointed one bit.
 
As a big DT fan I understand a lot of the comments here. I get the feeling that they tried to make the rock opera a bit more accessible to non-DT fans particularly with the keyboards and lack of riffage. If I ignore the DT legacy I like it as an entirety despite some of the tracks being weak and JLB has certainly stepped up. While I understand the MP comments I am thankful his "supporting" vocals and drum-centric mix are absent.
 
Today I listened to all the tracks through my studio monitors: well,the complete work becomes better every time I listen to it. Maybe because now there's nothing left to expect. Tonight I will try to listen with headphone while reading the booklet.
I just saw that the "Astonishing" website is now online with the complete story plot and lyrics (http://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks).
It's a complex work and even if there's not a "wow" song, now, after some listen, the "whole" is pleasant. Maybe I judged it too soon (or I had expectations too high).
 
I will say this must have taken an astounding amount of work thought editing illustration; frankly its an impressive feat. Theyve made a whole story, city, sent out mailers. ON the other hand I ask why? where does this get/take the listener, the fan. I understand they might make it into a play, a movie, etc. I still say GIVE ME MORE TRAIN OF THOUGHT BROTEIN SHAKES, BROTATO CHIPS, TEDDY BROOSEVELT, ! oK, I digressed. :)
 
On first and albeit quiet, semi-attentive listen, I was a little disappointed with the lack of 'wow' moments which I kinda recall having on first listen of all their other albums - whether that 'wow' comes from a riff, melody, composition or plain old coolness.

That being said, I'm keen to listen again and give it chance to grow.

I do have an underlying feeling however that Mike Portnoy was the 'cheese filter'... I can kinda see him vetoing some of the lyrical choices and corny stuff... James can be properly wet and 'airy-fairy' at times - I think Mike kept that side of things in check!
 
AlGrenadine said:
Am i the only one earing bad quality drum samples with not enough different velocity layers?
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Mangini's sound is always heavily compressed like that. Some song I heard the loudes ghost notes of the snare ever in a mix. Full band going, heavy guitars and vocals... And ghost notes were louder than everything.
 
jpelzel said:
Sounds exactly like old school DT to me.
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Got through the first 19 tracks last night and this was my first thought as well. Especially the drum sounds. The drums sound so much like how I remember them sounding on Images & Words when I first heard it. I need to go back and revisit Images & Words now and check them against each other.

The story holds together nicely so far and I'm loving just about everything on the album. There are these HUGE fog horn type noises in the opening and later towards the end of the first...uh, movement, is that what we're calling it?...that I'd love to know how they made. They rattle the house.
 
AlGrenadine said:
Am i the only one earing bad quality drum samples with not enough different velocity layers?
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Are you serius?? are you hearing this with ipod inears or what? I gave the album a good listen with my studio headphones and the drums sound great!!!!

Whats next, James LaBrie was out of tune??? Geez....
 
nicolasrivera said:
Are you serius?? are you hearing this with ipod inears or what? I gave the album a good listen with my studio headphones and the drums sound great!!!!

Whats next, James LaBrie was out of tune??? Geez....
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The snare definitely sounds "robotic" and sampled all the time. Past albums too. It's his style, how pearl drums sound, how they are tuned, and post-production.
 
Never liked DT. But I thought I give it try.
I wonder why they call this kind of music "progressive". Sounds so old and outdated to me.
Yes, those drums, totally without dynamics.
Bombastic. Didn't hear a single "authentic" part that moved me. And those choirs, oh well.
 
The only thing I'll say is - look at who produced it. Start taking a look back through their discography and look for repeat characters and you'll start to see some interesting things, and, IMO, the reason that modern era Dream Theater isn't what it could be.
Just for giggles, go back and look at Images and Words, then look at The Astonishing.
 
dr bonkers said:
The drums sound like they are all triggered, quantized, tempo mapped, & velocity levelled generic library samples.
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They are not. Mangini is disciplined in the sense that he tries to get every hit the same velocity.
Whether you like that style of playing or not is a different story....but that is all Michael.
He's a friend of mine, so I'm keeping my opinion out of this thread as I am biased :)
 
BBN said:
They are not. Mangini is disciplined in the sense that he tries to get every hit the same velocity.
Whether you like that style of playing or not is a different story....but that is all Michael.
He's a friend of mine, so I'm keeping my opinion out of this thread as I am biased :)
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Unless Mike Mangini spent all the time with the producer in the control room from tracking through the final mix down, there is a possibility that there was some sample replacement done or there was extreme limiting done that gave the same aural effect that many of us are hearing. My critique was not of the fills or the actual patterns or musicianship of your friend, which are neat, but of the drum sounds themselves which sound un-human.

Drummers will always have a 3-5% velocity variation when playing a song and the most disciplined drummers, especially when playing fast, will have a 1/2" or 1" radius variance on hitting the drum in the exact same spot, which slightly varies the sound. You can even look at the drum heads of Neal Peart or Stewart Copeland or Steve Gadd or Danny Carey and see that kind of hit radius variance on their drum heads when they play.

For example, just to illustrate what I am talking about:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/i21J1BUAyBk/hqdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZSiuK4Mt9gs/maxresdefault.jpg
https://200mghercianos.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/copeland-kit-3.jpg
http://dannycarey.org/wp-content/uploads/4.jpg

I have listened to a lot of serious players in the control room in my day and the best drummers will have those kinds of variances in sound, which is nothing to be ashamed about, as that is incredible precision. I am not hearing those slight variances on this album.

I have been on sessions where the producer did sample replacement and/or limiting without a drummer's knowledge and the drummer was none the wiser and the aural effect was similar to what I am hearing on this album. I am not saying this is exactly what happened here, but the drum tracks sound extremely produced, for want of a better term.
 
Hate Dream Theater since Metropolis Pt. 2, Kevin Moore departure changed everything completely. A Change of Seasons and Falling into Infinity are great albums, IMHO.
 
So far I'm really enjoying this album, and I'm excited to see them live in February. The thing I'm concerned about is LaBrie having such a big role. I think he's doing a great job on the album, but he often struggles live and I'm afraid his performance won't be satisfactory this time either. I dont understand what people mean by "there are no riffs".
 
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