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Downgrading to FW9

chris

Legend!
i just don't understand the mentality when there is maybe a handful of guys that have an issue and then try to act like it's hardware of firmware issue and that everyone who defends it is somehow a fanboy or is drinking the kool-aid. it's ludicrous
welcome to the FAS forum! haha
 

Skyze

Inspired
i just don't understand the mentality when there is maybe a handful of guys that have an issue and then try to act like it's hardware of firmware issue and that everyone who defends it is somehow a fanboy or is drinking the kool-aid. it's ludicrous
Well, when every response about anyone not liking the latest firmware is followed by "Every PRO at Axefest liked FW11" or "user errors is only way it sounds bad".. Completely passive-aggressive suggestioning that anyone who doesnt live and die by Cliff's words are either unskilled, not professionals or just not knowledgeable about gear at all.. You really wonder??

Take a look at the link I posted about Lenny D's FW10 mesa thing. Read through the whole thing, try to stay unbiased and watch how posts by the same people change after Cliff admits he made a mistake in coding. Its impossible to bring up any "concerns" about the axefx without being bashed on these forums.

For those of us who like the "polished" nature of V9, how in the world would we figure out on our own to change the settings that Cliff just mentioned?? It's not exactly an "easy" solution to find on your own (I messed with turning MIMIC off but it didnt do enough) - If this thread did without the insinuating that anyone who likes V9 are not "pros", and just posted those setting changes, it would obviously be more productive than discrediting a percentage of the fanbase.
 
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Skyze

Inspired
Triode Hardness seems to make all the difference.. I'll start calling that the "Suck" knob. Turn it down and the suck goes away.

(in all seriousness, I can see its usefulness on certain amps; although I don't agree with it being at 8.5 default.. but most of the amps I prefer, I'll keep it at 0)
 

animal

Experienced
Well, when every response about anyone not liking the latest firmware is followed by "Every PRO at Axefest liked FW11" or "user errors is only way it sounds bad".. Completely passive-aggressive suggestioning that anyone who doesnt live and die by Cliff's words are either unskilled, not professionals or just not knowledgeable about gear at all.. You really wonder??

Take a look at the link I posted about Lenny D's FW10 mesa thing. Read through the whole thing, try to stay unbiased and watch how posts by the same people change after Cliff admits he made a mistake in coding. Its impossible to bring up any "concerns" about the axefx without being bashed on these forums.

For those of us who like the "polished" nature of V9, how in the world would we figure out on our own to change the settings that Cliff just mentioned?? It's not exactly an "easy" solution to find on your own (I messed with turning MIMIC off but it didnt do enough) - If this thread did without the insinuating that anyone who likes V9 are not "pros", and just posted those setting changes, it would obviously be more productive than discrediting a percentage of the fanbase.

Same thing goes for the crowd that every single FW is better yet sometimes there are issues that happen (and get fixed) yet these seem to never get picked up by that crowd.


Some of the user base have used the fractal gear from the ultra right thru all or most of the II FW's
While some players and pros started on 10-11 and can't make the comparison.
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Triode Hardness seems to make all the difference.. I'll start calling that the "Suck" knob. Turn it down and the suck goes away.

(in all seriousness, I can see its usefulness on certain amps; although I don't agree with it being at 8.5 default.. but most of the amps I prefer, I'll keep it at 0)
The default value is derived from the actual amp rounded to the nearest 0.5. The actual amp was compared to the model and the triode hardness adjusted until the distortion characteristics were equal.

You may prefer 0.0 but the default value is the accurate value.
 

chris

Legend!
Triode Hardness seems to make all the difference.. I'll start calling that the "Suck" knob. Turn it down and the suck goes away.

(in all seriousness, I can see its usefulness on certain amps; although I don't agree with it being at 8.5 default.. but most of the amps I prefer, I'll keep it at 0)
I guess all my tones suck then.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Triode Hardness at zero gives a smoother distortion with reduced upper harmonics. However if you carefully compare a real tube preamp with the Axe-Fx models you'll clearly hear the difference as you reduce Triode Hardness. It's even more apparent when you compare the distortion spectrum. It's yet even more apparent when you use measurement techniques that learn the proper value.

For certain styles of music lower values may be desirable. The user has the ability to adjust the value to whatever he feels most suits his tastes. What works for one person may not work for another.
 

Skyze

Inspired
I was joking with that comment, but im not surprised it was taken seriously.

I just think it was a harsh transition from FW 9 to FW 10 (for most people, not just myself) - maybe if the Triode was defaulted to 5-6 or so, it would give a bit more of a middle ground. But I get it, like I said before, Im not your target demographic and if that is what real amps are set to; then so be it. I play digital preamps to get away from tubes and find my own tone, tbh.
 

jlynnb1

Fractal Fanatic
i think there are just two very different types of users and neither camp can be totally satisfied at one time. one wants the most accurate "just like the real amp" experience possible, one wants the most polished sounds just like a recording tones.

no way to please everyone....but I believe Cliff's goal is the most accuracy possible, not the most polished....so I can see how his efforts to further the realism could leave some wanting.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
i think there are just two very different types of users and neither camp can be totally satisfied at one time. one wants the most accurate "just like the real amp" experience possible, one wants the most polished sounds just like a recording tones.

no way to please everyone....but I believe Cliff's goal is the most accuracy possible, not the most polished....so I can see how his efforts to further the realism could leave some wanting.
The upcoming firmware version 12.00 gives you the option. From the release notes:
The Amp block “Grid Modeling” parameter has been renamed and repurposed. The new name is “Modeling Mode” and offers four choices:
1. Authentic – Replicates a tube amplifier with the utmost accuracy.
2. Grid Cond Off – Turns off grid conduction modeling in the power amp simulation. This reduces blocking distortion.
3. Ideal – Removes most of the “warts” from the modeling which includes grid conduction, output transformer distortion, bias shifting and AC power supply modeling. Supply sag, screen voltage effects and crossover distortion are still modeled.
4. Ideal/Smooth – Same as #3 but also sets Triode Hardness to its lowest value. This is in essence an ideal preamp plus an ideal power amp.

The effects of these settings are most apparent when the virtual power amp is heavily overdriven (e.g. Master Volume set high). The use of these modes in conjunction with other parameters can yield idealized tones not achievable with real tube amps.

The first two choices duplicate the previous behavior of the deprecated “Grid Modeling” parameter so no changes are required to existing presets.
 

chris

Legend!
The upcoming firmware version 12.00 gives you the option. From the release notes:
The Amp block “Grid Modeling” parameter has been renamed and repurposed. The new name is “Modeling Mode” and offers four choices:
1. Authentic – Replicates a tube amplifier with the utmost accuracy.
2. Grid Cond Off – Turns off grid conduction modeling in the power amp simulation. This reduces blocking distortion.
3. Ideal – Removes most of the “warts” from the modeling which includes grid conduction, output transformer distortion, bias shifting and AC power supply modeling. Supply sag, screen voltage effects and crossover distortion are still modeled.
4. Ideal/Smooth – Same as #3 but also sets Triode Hardness to its lowest value. This is in essence an ideal preamp plus an ideal power amp.

The effects of these settings are most apparent when the virtual power amp is heavily overdriven (e.g. Master Volume set high). The use of these modes in conjunction with other parameters can yield idealized tones not achievable with real tube amps.

The first two choices duplicate the previous behavior of the deprecated “Grid Modeling” parameter so no changes are required to existing presets.
You are like, a genius. :)
 

merlin17

Power User
That sounds great and like a real step into the benefits of hi class modelling: accuracy with all of its "pains" (which a lot of people like) and a theoretical ideal way, perfect!
 

nicolasrivera

Fractal Fanatic
The upcoming firmware version 12.00 gives you the option. From the release notes:
The Amp block “Grid Modeling” parameter has been renamed and repurposed. The new name is “Modeling Mode” and offers four choices:
1. Authentic – Replicates a tube amplifier with the utmost accuracy.
2. Grid Cond Off – Turns off grid conduction modeling in the power amp simulation. This reduces blocking distortion.
3. Ideal – Removes most of the “warts” from the modeling which includes grid conduction, output transformer distortion, bias shifting and AC power supply modeling. Supply sag, screen voltage effects and crossover distortion are still modeled.
4. Ideal/Smooth – Same as #3 but also sets Triode Hardness to its lowest value. This is in essence an ideal preamp plus an ideal power amp.

The effects of these settings are most apparent when the virtual power amp is heavily overdriven (e.g. Master Volume set high). The use of these modes in conjunction with other parameters can yield idealized tones not achievable with real tube amps.

The first two choices duplicate the previous behavior of the deprecated “Grid Modeling” parameter so no changes are required to existing presets.
I vote for a 4th choice called... The ULTRA Sound mode!!! :)
 

Skyze

Inspired
The upcoming firmware version 12.00 gives you the option. From the release notes:
The Amp block “Grid Modeling” parameter has been renamed and repurposed. The new name is “Modeling Mode” and offers three choices:
1. Authentic – Replicates a tube amplifier with the utmost accuracy.
2. Grid Cond Off – Turns off grid conduction modeling in the power amp simulation. This reduces blocking distortion.
3. Ideal – Removes most of the “warts” from the modeling which includes grid conduction, output transformer distortion, bias shifting and AC power supply modeling. Supply sag, screen voltage effects and crossover distortion are still modeled.
4. Ideal/Smooth – Same as #3 but also sets Triode Hardness to its lowest value. This is in essence an ideal preamp plus an ideal power amp.

The effects of these settings are most apparent when the virtual power amp is heavily overdriven (e.g. Master Volume set high). The use of these modes in conjunction with other parameters can yield idealized tones not achievable with real tube amps.

The first two choices duplicate the previous behavior of the deprecated “Grid Modeling” parameter so no changes are required to existing presets.
This sounds pretty insane. If it truly does what you say, I may have to start becoming a "fanboy", lol.

See, there was a positive side to V9 people complaining. That is pretty "innovative" for modelling terms. As I do like FW11 for certain clean amp tones (very delicate, touch sensitive ones, ala Andy Timmons) but prefer the "Ideal" type for more standard-jazz and hi-gain.
 

smcrosby

Power User
Triode Hardness at zero gives a smoother distortion with reduced upper harmonics. However if you carefully compare a real tube preamp with the Axe-Fx models you'll clearly hear the difference as you reduce Triode Hardness. It's even more apparent when you compare the distortion spectrum. It's yet even more apparent when you use measurement techniques that learn the proper value.

For certain styles of music lower values may be desirable. The user has the ability to adjust the value to whatever he feels most suits his tastes. What works for one person may not work for another.
Kinda makes life worth living! :)
 

Moke

Fractal Fanatic
Per preset?? damm, this will be sick. Authentic when you want it, and Idealized when you want it. What in the heck will everybody argue about? ................I'm sure we'll find something....;)
 
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