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Wish Doomy Amps

litche

New Member
One notable absence i've never been too happy with the fractal for excluding are the amps commonly used by the stoner/doom crowd. I'd like to see some of these modeled properly. Understandably, some of these are rare and/or were never very "good" by most standards. But they also have very unique tones that defined many bands and certain genres. I've spent alot of time experimenting with tweaking the values of other related amps to simulate these. I've been successful as creating interesting sounds, but have never been able to reproduce them properly.

1. Sunn Model T (there are a few versions, they are all very different and very awesome!).
2. Sunn Sceptre
3. Sunn beta bass/beta lead (the amp itself is nothing spectacular, solid state and nasty - but if you can model that EQ and stick it in a different amp as an alternate tone stack...that would be phenomenal)
4. Sunn Concert Bass (just a solid state bass amp that sounds wonderfully enormous for no logical reason)
5. Ampeg vt-40/vt-40b. Josh Homme's primary amp from kyuss to QOTSA. Very popular with other bands too. Ken fisher of trainwreck fame had a hand in these, so of course they came out great! Lots of thick, midrange bite.
6. Traynor yba-1. The canadian bassman everyone modded into a marshall wannabe but ended up with a new sound unto itself.
7. Matamps. Orange came from Matamp. Matamps were better. New ones are nothing special, but the vintage specimens sound amazing. Peter Green of fleetwood mac was known for using these. As was Matt Pike of High on Fire / Sleep.
8. Electric Amp CO USA POWER UNIT. This is a rare point to point bass amp with kt88's. Just master volume, presence, and low cut. This company started off producing p2p mil-spec clones of matamps, but with slightly different specs. Best Bass amp I've ever owned, hands down. If the Fractal team wants to borrow mine to model it, get in touch. I don't live too far.
 

litche

New Member
Also, wanted to add:

Hovercraft and Verellen amps. These might be an issue to model though. Hovercrafts to my knowledge are all unique, and made from reclaimed scrap parts. Verellens are kinda based on the hiwatt philosophy, but have a much grungier tone. They are all within that stoner/doom tone spectrum though. Most of those other amps I have listed above are hard to find in good condition and the electric amp has an 18+ month wait list for a custom build and only pop up on ebay once every half decade. Hovercrafts and verellens are much easier to find.
 

zenaxe

Fractal Fanatic
FWIW, Cliff said the Sunn Model T is a near clone of the MArshall JTM 45 from a ckt perspective. I'm a Doom fan, though, so I would definitely welcome some more legendary doomy amps. Even another Orange, specifically one of the OR series... (the Thunder series is not represented either) would be most excellent and probably not as hard to procure. There is probably little hope of something as obscure as a verellen or hovercraft but maybe some of the Sunns or Ampegs might be workable.

It'd be nice to have some new FUZZes to go along with those.
 
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litche

New Member
FWIW, Cliff said the Sunn Model T is a near clone of the MArshall JTM 45 from a ckt perspective.
Can you point me to where cliff talked about the Model T? I wonder if he had any suggestions for how to tweak the jtm45 to sound like a model t.

Most amps are very closely related. There's a few "families" of amp circuits and within those families the differences are slight. Maybe a slightly different layout, different transformer and slightly different value or type of components (i.e british stock vs. usa stock vs. asian, metal film instead of carbon comp resistors, etc), but if you look at the schematics they are ridiculously similar. The slight differences stack on top of each other, and end up creating a very different sound. The amp list on the axefx already has so much redundancy in that regard that it wouldn't hurt to add an actual model T.
There's also the fender-era model t's from the 1990's that are a completely different amp and different circuit. They made a high gain guitar amp and a 300 watt bass amp, both model t's. Also great amps, but completely different beast from the vintage model t's.

I second the fuzz suggestion. Notably lacking are raunchy zipper-like fuzzes. Can sorta emulate it by adding gates or playing with the bit/sample reduction, but it sounds super digital. I've gotten rid of 90% of my pedals since I transitioned to the axefx. The only things I still use and need on a regular basis that the axefx can't emulate well are fuzz pedals, wahs, and compressors, which are the only things left on my pedalboard besides the mfc 101. The compressors I mentioned in another post, and the problem I have with wah's is more an issue of ease of use. My CAE wah does what it's supposed to without needing to mess with anything so i leave it alone.

I second the suggestion for OR series amps. The (vintage) Matamp GT series is what the OR series is based on, the OR being a mass produced and very watered down version. Still great by any standard, but the GT's are in a whole other league. Might not make any difference though from a modeling perspective.
 

Hubertus

Power User
Can you point me to where cliff talked about the Model T? I wonder if he had any suggestions for how to tweak the jtm45 to sound like a model t.

Most amps are very closely related. There's a few "families" of amp circuits and within those families the differences are slight. Maybe a slightly different layout, different transformer and slightly different value or type of components (i.e british stock vs. usa stock vs. asian, metal film instead of carbon comp resistors, etc), but if you look at the schematics they are ridiculously similar. The slight differences stack on top of each other, and end up creating a very different sound. The amp list on the axefx already has so much redundancy in that regard that it wouldn't hurt to add an actual model T.
There's also the fender-era model t's from the 1990's that are a completely different amp and different circuit. They made a high gain guitar amp and a 300 watt bass amp, both model t's. Also great amps, but completely different beast from the vintage model t's.

I second the fuzz suggestion. Notably lacking are raunchy zipper-like fuzzes. Can sorta emulate it by adding gates or playing with the bit/sample reduction, but it sounds super digital. I've gotten rid of 90% of my pedals since I transitioned to the axefx. The only things I still use and need on a regular basis that the axefx can't emulate well are fuzz pedals, wahs, and compressors, which are the only things left on my pedalboard besides the mfc 101. The compressors I mentioned in another post, and the problem I have with wah's is more an issue of ease of use. My CAE wah does what it's supposed to without needing to mess with anything so i leave it alone.

I second the suggestion for OR series amps. The (vintage) Matamp GT series is what the OR series is based on, the OR being a mass produced and very watered down version. Still great by any standard, but the GT's are in a whole other league. Might not make any difference though from a modeling perspective.
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/some-doom-amps.44755/#post-957935
 

litche

New Member
Thanks Hubertus.

I see that thread is five years old. I'm assuming we're not going to see any sunn amps :-(
 

fromthebark

Inspired
5. Ampeg vt-40/vt-40b. Josh Homme's primary amp from kyuss to QOTSA. Very popular with other bands too. Ken fisher of trainwreck fame had a hand in these, so of course they came out great! Lots of thick, midrange bite.

Yes.. this is an amp I've been lusting for in the axe fx for some time, since we do a couple QOTSA covers at practice.. So far i've been using a boosted supro and a master fuzz I think. It gets close.
 

crg123

Experienced
FWIW, Cliff said the Sunn Model T is a near clone of the MArshall JTM 45 from a ckt perspective. I'm a Doom fan, though, so I would definitely welcome some more legendary doomy amps. Even another Orange, specifically one of the OR series... (the Thunder series is not represented either) would be most excellent and probably not as hard to procure. There is probably little hope of something as obscure as a verellen or hovercraft but maybe some of the Sunns or Ampegs might be workable.

It'd be nice to have some new FUZZes to go along with those.
Wow so I just tried the JTM-45 jump model with the treble/normal drive crank, master cranked and a master vol trim of 2 into an ML Orange IR and one of Dr. Bonker's GK Ir's I just bought yesterday (turned this down in the mix because it was too much bass at first), but holy shit. It works.
 

CaligulaCuddles

New Member
7. Matamps. Orange came from Matamp. Matamps were better. New ones are nothing special, but the vintage specimens sound amazing. Peter Green of fleetwood mac was known for using these. As was Matt Pike of High on Fire / Sleep.
My main amps live amps have always been a Hiwatt and a Matamp GT120. In a pinch, I can settle on a Twin to replace the Hiwatt, though I feel like a lot of personal touch gets lost in the translation... I'm sure I'm the only one who knows or cares about that.

As for the Matamp, I've never found anything quite like it, especially with the Bass Boost (FAC) knob. I've been told that an Ampeg V4 is a suitable companion with the similarly-styled Jones tone stack, and similarly the Carvin Legacy, but both have always fell short, especially for playing with single-coil pickups.

I've tweaked the tone knobs on a variety of the Axe FX amps to a variety of degrees trying to find that "sweet spot," but it never quite captured that peculiar thickness and strange attack response. I'd be interested if anyone's come in the ballpark of that tone in their experimentations with other models.

Edit: I should add that, even though I bought my Matamp in the midst of a tryst with sludgy doom metal, I've found it to be a richly dynamic amp for straight-up pop. It just sits perfectly in the mix when you're playing with another guitarist. Marshall, Fender, Mesa... it always feels like a great companion amp to whatever else is on the stage/in the studio.
 
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dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
if you like tge
Wow so I just tried the JTM-45 jump model with the treble/normal drive crank, master cranked and a master vol trim of 2 into an ML Orange IR and one of Dr. Bonker's GK Ir's I just bought yesterday (turned this down in the mix because it was too much bass at first), but holy shit. It works.
If you like the GK in volume 2, you should try the Acoustic 406 2×15 ir's in volume 1. Very doomy stuff can be had with that cab.
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Wow so I just tried the JTM-45 jump model with the treble/normal drive crank, master cranked and a master vol trim of 2 into an ML Orange IR and one of Dr. Bonker's GK Ir's I just bought yesterday (turned this down in the mix because it was too much bass at first), but holy ****. It works.
If you did not pick up volume 1 yet, you can now find it here: https://www.drbonkerssoundlab.com/product/dr-bonkers-silver-black-bass-cabinet-ir-collection-volume-1-ac406-2x15-alu-1x15-bass-cabs/
 
I know there are a couple of threads on this but if this is the most recent one then lets revive the request until we get some decent sounding doom amps!

I adore the Axe, but I just cannot get that thick, warm fuzz or Matamp tone.

Someday I know it'll happen! I have faith!
 
Anybody know how to get more people interested in this thread?It's really the only thing the Fractal doesn't have. The cleans, the scooped metal, drive, it's all there. I have yet to see anybody get a good Doom\Fuzz sound like the Green\Meta Amps out of the Fractal. The more people who show interest in these tones the better the chances they'll add them, otherwise it'll just be on the wishlist forever ¯\_(?)_/¯

I will personally give $500 to Cliff if he can provide these tones :)
 

benvigil

Experienced
Try this preset on for size. I created it based on some Kemper stoner profiles created by a KPA user named aguilar. Ironically, he was a former FAS user and was trying to recreate his stoner presets on the Kemper.

It uses the stock SV Bass amp and cab. The preset is quite a bit more brutal than the sounds in that video though. The switches are setup to peel off parts of the sound if you need it for certain passages.
 

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