Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (Tried Line6 Helix)

I own both a helix and an afx3, both are great and can do most amps well with the right amount of work. ML Sound Labs is right, some of the helix amps need some creative eq’ing or a well matched IR for the helix. The afx3 is pretty easy to get a fantastic sound. That said, I use the helix more than the afx3 for two primary reasons...
1. Convenience - the helix is a lighter, smaller, all in one unit that accomplished everything I need it to do
2. Lack of a great floor controller for afx - this is the real blocker. Once the fc controllers come out, I may question whether I keep the helix or not. I tried a Morningstar MC6 and it just didn’t get anywhere close to usable for me as a controller, since then i’ve decided to just wait it out on trying anything else...

Keep in mind that the average listener in an audience can’t tell an actual difference between a pod bean and an afx3...

The biggest gripe I have about the helix is that it’s tuner is basically unusable. I don’t know how they can screw up the most basic of features, but it is TERRIBLE.
 
jdolll said:
I own both a helix and an afx3, both are great and can do most amps well with the right amount of work. ML Sound Labs is right, some of the helix amps need some creative eq’ing or a well matched IR for the helix. The afx3 is pretty easy to get a fantastic sound. That said, I use the helix more than the afx3 for two primary reasons...
1. Convenience - the helix is a lighter, smaller, all in one unit that accomplished everything I need it to do
2. Lack of a great floor controller for afx - this is the real blocker. Once the fc controllers come out, I may question whether I keep the helix or not. I tried a Morningstar MC6 and it just didn’t get anywhere close to usable for me as a controller, since then i’ve decided to just wait it out on trying anything else...

Keep in mind that the average listener in an audience can’t tell an actual difference between a pod bean and an afx3...

The biggest gripe I have about the helix is that it’s tuner is basically unusable. I don’t know how they can screw up the most basic of features, but it is TERRIBLE.
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Have you updated to the latest FW on the Helix? Strobe tuner is great, imo.
 
jdolll said:
I own both a helix and an afx3, both are great and can do most amps well with the right amount of work. ML Sound Labs is right, some of the helix amps need some creative eq’ing or a well matched IR for the helix. The afx3 is pretty easy to get a fantastic sound. That said, I use the helix more than the afx3 for two primary reasons...
1. Convenience - the helix is a lighter, smaller, all in one unit that accomplished everything I need it to do
2. Lack of a great floor controller for afx - this is the real blocker. Once the fc controllers come out, I may question whether I keep the helix or not. I tried a Morningstar MC6 and it just didn’t get anywhere close to usable for me as a controller, since then i’ve decided to just wait it out on trying anything else...

Keep in mind that the average listener in an audience can’t tell an actual difference between a pod bean and an afx3...

The biggest gripe I have about the helix is that it’s tuner is basically unusable. I don’t know how they can screw up the most basic of features, but it is TERRIBLE.
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Once you factor in a protective case, the helix is really not any lighter/smaller/more convenient than the Axe III. In fact, even after I got the Axe (and at the time still had the Helix) I just used the Axe since it was so much easier to carry the SKB 4-space rack around; with the Helix, I didn't have a backpack so it was basically just putting it in its box every time. Not a huge deal, but still kinda annoying.

Regarding the foot control, I can't sing the praises of the FCB1010 highly enough. Does literally everything you could want it to do; 10 pedals, bank up/down pedals, and 2 exp pedals - and it's dirt cheap to boot and not difficult to program at all.

That all said, to be honest, at the last few rehearsals I've just been using my Pod 2.0 bean :) Now THERE'S convenience. Just grab the sack where it lives and a guitar and go!

But at home, man, I've got some killer tones waiting for our next gig!
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I talked myself out of writing this thread a couple of times but then thought it could bring some sense or realism to this forum so let's do it. I just hope this doesn't become "one of those threads". Let's try and keep things civilized and honest.


Lesson learned #2: We are spoiled brats.

Options options options. With Fractal we have so many options that there's even been complaints about that. This is kind of where I maybe prefer the Helix approach. I wish (oh man I'm I the spoiled brat from #2?) ... somewhere deep inside I wish I never had to see the advanced pages for the amp sims in Fractal. These days mostly spend time on the speaker resonance page as I find that's the best way to get the low end just right. The thing is, I could try and limit myself from going there and I would still be completely happy with the unit. It's just that I can and I want to tweak. But at the same time when I play for fun I choose the amp sims that sound great without any tweaking like Friedmans f.ex.

Overall lesson learned: Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (the title)
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#2) In a band where we try to sound like the original recording, the advanced amp parameters help my live sound to be a lot closer to what was produced in a studio.
Had a Helix and could get a lot of great sounds but not able to get it as close to a lot of 70's sounds as the Axe Fx II.
 
Between this thread and the impending tax increase, I'm seriously tempted to grab a III.

I currently have a Helix floor (previously owned a II XL). I wouldn't say I get bad sounds out of it, but I do graze over a decent amount of the amps and stick to half a dozen. When I had the II XL, it felt like every amp model was useable though. I also initially felt that the II XL was 'deep' in terms of editing and ended up selling it. Since then though I've become way more comfortable with editing parameters and more importantly, gain staging.

One of the things I liked best about the Axe was that I could drench my sound in reverbs and delays and the original signal never got lost in it. While I can get decent ambient sounds with the Helix, I do feel like I have a harder time with the wet/dry balance so it doesn't sound muddy. I don't recall ever having that issue with the II XL. It was actually pretty damned magical.

I hear it in the newer axe III demos too - anything that is effect heavy never gets in the way. It's almost like the reverbs and delays are being ducked (but not really) and still super present in the mix.
 
Alabama man said:
Between this thread and the impending tax increase, I'm seriously tempted to grab a III.

I currently have a Helix floor (previously owned a II XL). I wouldn't say I get bad sounds out of it, but I do graze over a decent amount of the amps and stick to half a dozen. When I had the II XL, it felt like every amp model was useable though. I also initially felt that the II XL was 'deep' in terms of editing and ended up selling it. Since then though I've become way more comfortable with editing parameters and more importantly, gain staging.

One of the things I liked best about the Axe was that I could drench my sound in reverbs and delays and the original signal never got lost in it. While I can get decent ambient sounds with the Helix, I do feel like I have a harder time with the wet/dry balance so it doesn't sound muddy. I don't recall ever having that issue with the II XL. It was actually pretty damned magical.

I hear it in the newer axe III demos too - anything that is effect heavy never gets in the way. It's almost like the reverbs and delays are being ducked (but not really) and still super present in the mix.
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The III is truly next level stuff ... don’t wait. :)
 
∞Fractals said:
The III is truly next level stuff ... don’t wait. :)
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Oh, I know lol. Aside from my Strymon stuff, I haven't found anything that beats the Axe reverbs and delays.

I think I would dig it now that I have more experience. I've sold off most of my tube amps since going digital, so it's not a matter of realism for me at this point. I haven't plugged into my twin in months. I don't really get that need to blast stuff anymore.
 
Also, I don't really think there's any company matching FAS for updates, which to me are critical in 2018. I love that if there's a bug, it gets squashed in a matter of days. I'm still trying to figure out how a company this size manages that while much "bigger" companies are only able to put out stuff every couple of months.

It's really spoiled me.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
I talked myself out of writing this thread a couple of times but then thought it could bring some sense or realism to this forum so let's do it. I just hope this doesn't become "one of those threads". Let's try and keep things civilized and honest.

I've been on this forum since the Axe-Fx Standard days so I guess I'm some sort of Fractal veteran at 31 years old. The Axe-Fx has been a part of my life for a long time now and the emphasis on "part of my life" just got a deeper meaning today. Believe it or not, I haven't really tried the Helix properly before today. Based on clips and what people are saying about it I always held in a somewhat high regard. I'll be the first to say that it looks pretty and keeping the controls limited gives it a nice user experience.

Besides those two factors I have to say I've never struggled this much on any Fractal trying to make it sound like a real amp. I'm not talking about getting things sounding just like my real amps but just "passable as a tube amp". I quickly realized I wasn't using the amp EQ on the Helix to try and balance it to my liking but to try and find a setting that just sounds like a tube amp. I can't remember ever doing this with any Fractal unit ever. Just like with real amps, most amps sound really good on the Fractal with all settings at noon and a few small tweaks to balance the EQ usually gets me a 100% organic and real sound with my own IR's that I know are raw and realistic captures. I wasn't getting anything like that with the Helix. The middle and presence controls did something that in my opinion those knobs shouldn't be doing. I could easily have presence on 10 and middle on 0 on most amps on the Helix and it actually made it sound more realistic even. With some amps this couldn't even get me enough brightness or middle scoop like on that Orange amp.

Lesson learned #1: With Fractal you never have to struggle trying to make it sound like a real tube amp

Then let's discuss the amp options. I can't believe how many people are almost angry on this forum wishing for certain amps when we have four times more amp sims than "the next best thing" and once again the level of amp modeling in the Fractal is just insane. I started feeling bad for Cliff and Matt for all the demanding wish threads on this forum. "Helix has Archon" ... "Helix has a Klon" ... "Helix has a .. " .. yeah but they don't sound real so they're just names so stop saying things like that.

Lesson learned #2: We are spoiled brats.

Options options options. With Fractal we have so many options that there's even been complaints about that. This is kind of where I maybe prefer the Helix approach. I wish (oh man I'm I the spoiled brat from #2?) ... somewhere deep inside I wish I never had to see the advanced pages for the amp sims in Fractal. These days mostly spend time on the speaker resonance page as I find that's the best way to get the low end just right. The thing is, I could try and limit myself from going there and I would still be completely happy with the unit. It's just that I can and I want to tweak. But at the same time when I play for fun I choose the amp sims that sound great without any tweaking like Friedmans f.ex.

Lesson learned #3: You don't have to fall in the tweaker's rabbit hole to get a great sound.

I actually recorded some comparison clips but then I decided not to post them as it's a bit unfair. I'll spend some more time with the Helix and maybe make a comparison video or something. At the end of the day I'm sure I would find a realistic and good sounding guitar tone from the Helix, it just didn't come as easily as I'm used to getting it. Good IR + default amp settings get me there very fast usually.

Overall lesson learned: Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (the title)
Click to expand...

I have to say i do still struggle but end up successfully trying to make some of the Fractal Amps react as close to my amps as i can.

I still have to try the Axe III, there is 1 already here in Honduras that belongs to a friend of mine and fellow forum member. Since i already know what to move like if it where memory muscle i´m eager to hear if the new resolution take some tweaking time off my dialing process.

I have tried the Helix, bot hardware and software and the amps just dont sound inspiring, i get way better amps tones with Atomic and Headrush.

This past week i have a chance to try and hear the HX effects unit and it sounded great with a John Mayer tribute band that was over at our studio, that guy aside from being a great guitar player he had the JM tone cloned almost to perfection using the TS and other pedal emulations plugged into a MESA Lonestar Special amp that used to be mine.
 
a friend of mine is using the HX Effects. great small unit. i always thought their effects sounded great, and pairing that with her real amp sounds really good.

that said, we all saw Def Leppard live the other night, and talks of switching to Fractal and leaving the big heavy amps at home are in progress :D
 
nicolasrivera said:
I have to say i do still struggle but end up successfully trying to make some of the Fractal Amps react as close to my amps as i can.

I still have to try the Axe III, there is 1 already here in Honduras that belongs to a friend of mine and fellow forum member. Since i already know what to move like if it where memory muscle i´m eager to hear if the new resolution take some tweaking time off my dialing process.

I have tried the Helix, bot hardware and software and the amps just dont sound inspiring, i get way better amps tones with Atomic and Headrush.

This past week i have a chance to try and hear the HX effects unit and it sounded great with a John Mayer tribute band that was over at our studio, that guy aside from being a great guitar player he had the JM tone cloned almost to perfection using the TS and other pedal emulations plugged into a MESA Lonestar Special amp that used to be mine.
Click to expand...
I just cant seem to make the Atomic Firebox sound good. Funny thing is, that it is the simplest of all the modelers. I bought it as a backup for my live rig. It will work in a pinch.
 
deakle said:
Having played real tube amps for the last 40 years as well as a Kemper, I can say from my own personal experience that the Axe III is by far the easiest to achieve a great tone. I must admit that when I started with an Axe FX II I had to work at it to get what I wanted. But the III has really stepped up the "User Friendly" factor for me. Real tube amps do have that "feel" but it depends on the room you are in, the condition of your tubes, age of your speakers, etc. whether or not you get the tone you want. I have been in rooms where I instantly got the tone I wanted, then I have been in other rooms where I could never get what I wanted. The Axe III took care of all that for me. Plus, the advanced amp parameters page gives my Electrical Engineer mind something to toy with when I am bored!
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Hot dog... a fellow "geekdork" guitarist!!! Hehehe!!! Although I'm getting ready to add "retired" to the Electrical Engineer title Jan 4th, 2019! I have Helix and Axe FX III... I can get
what I need out of both, but the Axe III is a much more beastly animal!!!
 
Interesting that someone asked about your rube amp experience.

It only makes me think that there is a coming generation that will have zero (long term) experience with a tube amp. And won't miss it one bit.
 
electronpirate said:
It only makes me think that there is a coming generation that will have zero (long term) experience with a tube amp. And won't miss it one bit.
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I'm basically in this camp. I'm 31 and I couldn't afford or manage a tube amp until about five years ago. This week I decided that I'm getting rid of the amps (currently a Mark V and a Jet City) and going to pure digital. While there is something particular to the experience of an amp and a cab, I don't really feel like I'm missing out by switching to a purely Axe Fx rig. I might keep the JC and my 1x12 just because they're not worth much, but the sound is there in my Fractal and the advantages in flexibility are undeniable.
 
Also when talking about modelers there are these terms that get thrown around like "sounds like tubes", "organic", "feel like a tube amp" etc. by relatively young people when the fact is that most people my age and younger (also 31) may not necessarily have much experience with tube amps. I'm not talking about not owning and playing them but using them like they were meant to, cranked up extremely loud. There's a hate for Marshall among guitarists our age, this is something that I believe has to do with people playing really quiet as a Marshall needs to be way too loud to sound the way it was intended. Might be a thing in my country but I assume this is somewhat a global phenomena.

I do feel a new wave of tube amp lovers coming now with the reactive loadboxes. Even I have to say that I enjoy playing my amps through a loadbox and my own IR's. It's just a lot of fun and not so loud as it used to be. Here's a pic!

 
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Alabama man said:
Between this thread and the impending tax increase, I'm seriously tempted to grab a III.
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Don't wait... Our current tax collection system is going to take a while to get right, but once it does, it's for keeps (unless the great state of New Hampshire comes to the aid of its citizens...).

PS: In the meanwhile, if you purchase a unit believing that we should be taxing you, but we don't, then count your blessings and then DO follow your state's guidelines to report that purchase and pay the tax owed, just as you have probably been obliged to do for all Internet purchases over the past 20 or so years.
 
electronpirate said:
Interesting that someone asked about your rube amp experience.

It only makes me think that there is a coming generation that will have zero (long term) experience with a tube amp. And won't miss it one bit.
Click to expand...

I'm probably not typical, but even though I've owned tube amps since the late '60s (and still own the early silverface Deluxe Reverb I got in 6th grade), I have less experience with tube amps than a lot of the young guys here. Back in the early '80s when I was playing for a living, we didn't have modelers...I gigged with the Deluxe Reverb and a Music Man 65 watt combo running into a 4x12 cabinet. About the time I got out of the biz, Roland introduced their firwst multi-effects unit (the model number escapes me). Not long afterward, I bought an ADA MP-1 and a Quadraverb, and used that rig at home for decades, but primarily into headphones. Also picked up a used Mesa Boogie Studio 22 about that time, which probably only got a total of 10 to 12 hours of playing time. I still own all three of the tube amps I've owned, but they've not been played through for decades. In the late '90s I got a original POD bean, which was later replaced by the POD XT Live, and then eventually an Axe-Fx II. I've been using modelers exclusively since I got the POD. I've not missed using real amps since then.

tldr: I'm old and have played with tubes for nearly 50 years, but I've had pretty limited experience with tube amps. I don't miss them at all.
 
A whole generation of photographers never worked with film, all they know is digital. As such, many film related terms of “full frame”, “iso” values, etc, are kind of abstract and meaningless, as they are based around concepts that don’t directly pertain to modern photography in the same way.

We presently try to often describe tone in terms of tube amp behaviors, “amp in room” etc, with the understanding we are playing an emulation of gear we know and love.

Soon a generation will not equate the modelers to anything other than what it says on the display screen. The concept of a real amp isn’t going to mean anything aside from a historical basis.

Tone is simply going to be judged on if it sounds good or not, becasue few will have any idea if it sounds authentic or not.

I think in many ways that will be a good thing. Less concern about emulating a certain amp or pedal, sometimes based on a foggy memory, and instead just using the gear, not a/b’ing against hardware etc.
 
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