Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (Tried Line6 Helix)

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
I talked myself out of writing this thread a couple of times but then thought it could bring some sense or realism to this forum so let's do it. I just hope this doesn't become "one of those threads". Let's try and keep things civilized and honest.

I've been on this forum since the Axe-Fx Standard days so I guess I'm some sort of Fractal veteran at 31 years old. The Axe-Fx has been a part of my life for a long time now and the emphasis on "part of my life" just got a deeper meaning today. Believe it or not, I haven't really tried the Helix properly before today. Based on clips and what people are saying about it I always held in a somewhat high regard. I'll be the first to say that it looks pretty and keeping the controls limited gives it a nice user experience.

Besides those two factors I have to say I've never struggled this much on any Fractal trying to make it sound like a real amp. I'm not talking about getting things sounding just like my real amps but just "passable as a tube amp". I quickly realized I wasn't using the amp EQ on the Helix to try and balance it to my liking but to try and find a setting that just sounds like a tube amp. I can't remember ever doing this with any Fractal unit ever. Just like with real amps, most amps sound really good on the Fractal with all settings at noon and a few small tweaks to balance the EQ usually gets me a 100% organic and real sound with my own IR's that I know are raw and realistic captures. I wasn't getting anything like that with the Helix. The middle and presence controls did something that in my opinion those knobs shouldn't be doing. I could easily have presence on 10 and middle on 0 on most amps on the Helix and it actually made it sound more realistic even. With some amps this couldn't even get me enough brightness or middle scoop like on that Orange amp.

Lesson learned #1: With Fractal you never have to struggle trying to make it sound like a real tube amp

Then let's discuss the amp options. I can't believe how many people are almost angry on this forum wishing for certain amps when we have four times more amp sims than "the next best thing" and once again the level of amp modeling in the Fractal is just insane. I started feeling bad for Cliff and Matt for all the demanding wish threads on this forum. "Helix has Archon" ... "Helix has a Klon" ... "Helix has a .. " .. yeah but they don't sound real so they're just names so stop saying things like that.

Lesson learned #2: We are spoiled brats.

Options options options. With Fractal we have so many options that there's even been complaints about that. This is kind of where I maybe prefer the Helix approach. I wish (oh man I'm I the spoiled brat from #2?) ... somewhere deep inside I wish I never had to see the advanced pages for the amp sims in Fractal. These days mostly spend time on the speaker resonance page as I find that's the best way to get the low end just right. The thing is, I could try and limit myself from going there and I would still be completely happy with the unit. It's just that I can and I want to tweak. But at the same time when I play for fun I choose the amp sims that sound great without any tweaking like Friedmans f.ex.

Lesson learned #3: You don't have to fall in the tweaker's rabbit hole to get a great sound.

I actually recorded some comparison clips but then I decided not to post them as it's a bit unfair. I'll spend some more time with the Helix and maybe make a comparison video or something. At the end of the day I'm sure I would find a realistic and good sounding guitar tone from the Helix, it just didn't come as easily as I'm used to getting it. Good IR + default amp settings get me there very fast usually.

Overall lesson learned: Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (the title)
 
I'm very pleased and impressed with the III. There were a few things I had and really liked in the past but the III has become my all time favorite :)
There seems to be animosity and bias towards gear sometimes, that for the life of me I just can't figure out? I think that every guitar player on earth would want one if they really knew what it's all about!
 
This is sad considering I’ve been having my eyes on a HX Stomp for practice and some live situations.

You’re completely right though. I’m too used to see the AXE as an actual amp. I don’t even use presets anymore. I just have a single preset with a cab block. I pick up an amp model, tweak BMTP if needed and I start playing.

I forgot how it used to be with PODs and other modelers where I’d have to sit down for an hour tweaking compressors, drives, EQs, etc. I’ve taking guitar modeling for granted. Guess I’ll have to try a Helix before pulling the trigger on mere GAS.
 
I'm spoiled, but I 'aint no brat!
;)
Thanks
Pauly


I talked myself out of writing this thread a couple of times but then thought it could bring some sense or realism to this forum so let's do it. I just hope this doesn't become "one of those threads". Let's try and keep things civilized and honest.

I've been on this forum since the Axe-Fx Standard days so I guess I'm some sort of Fractal veteran at 31 years old. The Axe-Fx has been a part of my life for a long time now and the emphasis on "part of my life" just got a deeper meaning today. Believe it or not, I haven't really tried the Helix properly before today. Based on clips and what people are saying about it I always held in a somewhat high regard. I'll be the first to say that it looks pretty and keeping the controls limited gives it a nice user experience.

Besides those two factors I have to say I've never struggled this much on any Fractal trying to make it sound like a real amp. I'm not talking about getting things sounding just like my real amps but just "passable as a tube amp". I quickly realized I wasn't using the amp EQ on the Helix to try and balance it to my liking but to try and find a setting that just sounds like a tube amp. I can't remember ever doing this with any Fractal unit ever. Just like with real amps, most amps sound really good on the Fractal with all settings at noon and a few small tweaks to balance the EQ usually gets me a 100% organic and real sound with my own IR's that I know are raw and realistic captures. I wasn't getting anything like that with the Helix. The middle and presence controls did something that in my opinion those knobs shouldn't be doing. I could easily have presence on 10 and middle on 0 on most amps on the Helix and it actually made it sound more realistic even. With some amps this couldn't even get me enough brightness or middle scoop like on that Orange amp.

Lesson learned #1: With Fractal you never have to struggle trying to make it sound like a real tube amp

Then let's discuss the amp options. I can't believe how many people are almost angry on this forum wishing for certain amps when we have four times more amp sims than "the next best thing" and once again the level of amp modeling in the Fractal is just insane. I started feeling bad for Cliff and Matt for all the demanding wish threads on this forum. "Helix has Archon" ... "Helix has a Klon" ... "Helix has a .. " .. yeah but they don't sound real so they're just names so stop saying things like that.

Lesson learned #2: We are spoiled brats.

Options options options. With Fractal we have so many options that there's even been complaints about that. This is kind of where I maybe prefer the Helix approach. I wish (oh man I'm I the spoiled brat from #2?) ... somewhere deep inside I wish I never had to see the advanced pages for the amp sims in Fractal. These days mostly spend time on the speaker resonance page as I find that's the best way to get the low end just right. The thing is, I could try and limit myself from going there and I would still be completely happy with the unit. It's just that I can and I want to tweak. But at the same time when I play for fun I choose the amp sims that sound great without any tweaking like Friedmans f.ex.

Lesson learned #3: You don't have to fall in the tweaker's rabbit hole to get a great sound.

I actually recorded some comparison clips but then I decided not to post them as it's a bit unfair. I'll spend some more time with the Helix and maybe make a comparison video or something. At the end of the day I'm sure I would find a realistic and good sounding guitar tone from the Helix, it just didn't come as easily as I'm used to getting it. Good IR + default amp settings get me there very fast usually.

Overall lesson learned: Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (the title)
 
I talked myself out of writing this thread a couple of times but then thought it could bring some sense or realism to this forum so let's do it. I just hope this doesn't become "one of those threads". Let's try and keep things civilized and honest.

I've been on this forum since the Axe-Fx Standard days so I guess I'm some sort of Fractal veteran at 31 years old. The Axe-Fx has been a part of my life for a long time now and the emphasis on "part of my life" just got a deeper meaning today. Believe it or not, I haven't really tried the Helix properly before today. Based on clips and what people are saying about it I always held in a somewhat high regard. I'll be the first to say that it looks pretty and keeping the controls limited gives it a nice user experience.

Besides those two factors I have to say I've never struggled this much on any Fractal trying to make it sound like a real amp. I'm not talking about getting things sounding just like my real amps but just "passable as a tube amp". I quickly realized I wasn't using the amp EQ on the Helix to try and balance it to my liking but to try and find a setting that just sounds like a tube amp. I can't remember ever doing this with any Fractal unit ever. Just like with real amps, most amps sound really good on the Fractal with all settings at noon and a few small tweaks to balance the EQ usually gets me a 100% organic and real sound with my own IR's that I know are raw and realistic captures. I wasn't getting anything like that with the Helix. The middle and presence controls did something that in my opinion those knobs shouldn't be doing. I could easily have presence on 10 and middle on 0 on most amps on the Helix and it actually made it sound more realistic even. With some amps this couldn't even get me enough brightness or middle scoop like on that Orange amp.

Lesson learned #1: With Fractal you never have to struggle trying to make it sound like a real tube amp

Then let's discuss the amp options. I can't believe how many people are almost angry on this forum wishing for certain amps when we have four times more amp sims than "the next best thing" and once again the level of amp modeling in the Fractal is just insane. I started feeling bad for Cliff and Matt for all the demanding wish threads on this forum. "Helix has Archon" ... "Helix has a Klon" ... "Helix has a .. " .. yeah but they don't sound real so they're just names so stop saying things like that.

Lesson learned #2: We are spoiled brats.

Options options options. With Fractal we have so many options that there's even been complaints about that. This is kind of where I maybe prefer the Helix approach. I wish (oh man I'm I the spoiled brat from #2?) ... somewhere deep inside I wish I never had to see the advanced pages for the amp sims in Fractal. These days mostly spend time on the speaker resonance page as I find that's the best way to get the low end just right. The thing is, I could try and limit myself from going there and I would still be completely happy with the unit. It's just that I can and I want to tweak. But at the same time when I play for fun I choose the amp sims that sound great without any tweaking like Friedmans f.ex.

Lesson learned #3: You don't have to fall in the tweaker's rabbit hole to get a great sound.

I actually recorded some comparison clips but then I decided not to post them as it's a bit unfair. I'll spend some more time with the Helix and maybe make a comparison video or something. At the end of the day I'm sure I would find a realistic and good sounding guitar tone from the Helix, it just didn't come as easily as I'm used to getting it. Good IR + default amp settings get me there very fast usually.

Overall lesson learned: Don't take the Axe-Fx III for granted! (the title)



Very well said
 
Interesting. I've heard tons of great tones from the Helix, but I've had one a few times and was only able to get a couple tones I like out it. The Axe FX II and Amplifire both sound better to me. And obviously the Axe III does. Also, despite it's lauded GUI, I actually find it more difficult conceptually because you have to micromanage the 2 DSPs. Anyway, I'm sure it's user error, but in a world of options, there's really no reason for me to force myself to "learn" the Helix when I am fortunate enough to be able to afford something that works better for me.

Austin
 
The worship leader at the church I attend, and participate in the band occasionally, owns one. And he bought one for volunteers who might not have quality gear, but want to serve in the band. He programs the sounds for their unit.

It probably has a lot to do with the person programming, but my impression is that it sounds "glossy" and produced. The same sound I had with my Korg A3, A2, and A1 (still own it and it still works).

I haven't had a Helix to tinker with.

I would be able to get a good tone out of many different kinds of gear.

What definitely sets the III apart from the rest (including the Axe II), is the "feel" when you are playing the guitar. To me, that is what appeals to me - the "imperfections" of a tube amp to the minute detail, is there with the Axe III. I've heard 1x12 tube amps that I though sounded horrible while standing in front of them, only to be blown away while watching the band play - and the 1x12 amp mic'd with a 57.

I think I get that result with the Axe III. It doesn't sound overly polished and compressed and glossy (unless I want that kind of vibe). It just sounds like I have a few Boss Stomp boxes, some boutique overdrives, and I'm plugged into a combo or stack.
 
Just wanted to clarify that you can make the Helix sound like a tube amp. It's just that you have to find an amp model that "works" and maybe not go in with "that tone in your head" chase. I liked the Friedman and Mark IV but not because they sounded like those amps do in real life and f.ex. I love Orange and that one Orange amp that was in there sounded nothing like Orange. Orange is like a mix of Soldano sustain with a Plexi type high end and a Bogner huge low end. There was none of that complexity in there. Even the Ultra Fractal had it.

Still I'm sure I'm able to create realistic sounding clips with it.
 
Having played real tube amps for the last 40 years as well as a Kemper, I can say from my own personal experience that the Axe III is by far the easiest to achieve a great tone. I must admit that when I started with an Axe FX II I had to work at it to get what I wanted. But the III has really stepped up the "User Friendly" factor for me. Real tube amps do have that "feel" but it depends on the room you are in, the condition of your tubes, age of your speakers, etc. whether or not you get the tone you want. I have been in rooms where I instantly got the tone I wanted, then I have been in other rooms where I could never get what I wanted. The Axe III took care of all that for me. Plus, the advanced amp parameters page gives my Electrical Engineer mind something to toy with when I am bored!
 
How much experience do you have with real tube amps?
Let's see, I've played guitar since I was 10 years old and got my first tube amp around 13 years old and now I'm 31. So that's around 18 years of experience. At the moment I own 4 different tube amps that I play just as much as I play modelers. I've owned pretty much every Mesa amp except for some of the newer ones. I've had live rigs made of Orange, Marshall. EVH, Rectifier, several Mark series amps and quite recently I've been getting into vintage amps. I would say that I know what I'm talking about. :)
 
I freaking love my Axe-Fx III. I've tried all sorts of digital products, including a slew of Line6 stuff. I'm kind of a tech junkie. Don't get me wrong, I can eventually get a usable tone with practically anything, but, in the end, the experience and the feel of everything else just doesn't do it for me. The only one other than a Fractal that I found was pretty decent was the Atomic Amplifire, but even that doesn't touch the ineffable magic, simple ease of getting an awesome tone, and unbelievable flexibility and power that is the Axe-Fx III.
 
That being said, I've only got to play with a Helix for a short time... so perhaps given more time I could learn to like it more. But with the Axe-Fx III, I fell in love the second I turned it on and flipped through the included presets. It only got better once I started creating my own and exploring what others were sharing.

edit: spelling
 
I got the helix native on my laptop for when I'm on the road. It should sound like the hardware version....but as you said....its just not easy to get a good sound out of it. I was a bit disappointed about the helix native and when you are used to the Axe it always feels like going from a nice boogie amp to an old roland cube :)
 
I'm at that point where I already know and trust the sounds I am getting from the Axe FX, so I haven't been interested in looking at the other options that have come along in the last few years. I have an Axe FX III for crying out loud... I don't expect to find better and don't really look anymore. I can get a lot more tone benefit from actually practicing instead.

It's an odd sort of thing, this business of using the latest technology to get the best emulation of the techno creations of the 1950-70s. I still own several amps (10, actually) and enjoy them. But as a gigging rig, the Axe FX is king and everything else is just everything else for me.
 
At this point there are like one or two amps on the market that I would like to see in the Axe-Fx but realistically I can probably get those exact tones by just tweaking the amps already in the box, so yeah it's probably just items I'd like to see in a menu at this point, lol.

I'll never take the Axe-Fx for granted though, it has completely changed the way I think about guitar gear forever and even the way I approach creating music, as I can concentrate more on riffs and melodies now that the "rig building" aspect is taken care of.

It's even saved me from all the hours I would have spent daydreaming about and plotting how to get the money for that one last amp/cab/pedal that would surely be the thing that completes my sound this time, etc.
 
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