Don't sleep on the Celestion FX12-200 if you use IRs for live / rehearsal

FPFL

FPFL

Experienced
I've tried tons of PA gear, I own some QSC 12" PA stuff, and an original CLR (pre-Neo) and its all great for different things, but my favorite of the bunch for playing guitar with a live band is the FX12-200 in an oversized 1x12.

I put this setup together myself as an experiment and I'm loving it. It was easy to install a speaker in a new cab. I'm not the handiest guy trust me.

The Avatar Forte cabinet (also amazing) has a kickback leg and this makes all the difference for projection towards my head not my knees - and not overly resonating when I'm pushing a lot of air.

With the FX12 in that I get the best combination of variety via IRs but also that feel of playing thru a cab and how the overall response changes as it gets louder. The FX12 sound much better at yelling volume than at 'don't wake the wife/kids down the hall'. This is universal I know, but for whatever reason especially true with this speaker in the cab I use. If you haven't cranked it up some, it isn't revealing its differentiated quality.

There is also something I only get out of speakers in cabinet shaped boxes the way I expect - because physics is a thing. The IR emulates the speaker but cannot transform a small wedge or PA cab into a 1x12 or a 4x12. People look past this too quickly. If you want it to sound like a certain kind of cab, put this speaker in that sized box! That is a lot of the sound.

One big thing with the FX12? I don't do any EQ tweaks to the IRs, b/c I don't have to. The cut this high and this low and maybe boost that formula you see from some folks? Out of the window. I mean you can still do it, for safety, I always cut a little super low as a reflexive habit more from mixing bands than playing guitar, but I when I skip it, I don't notice any difference yet.

Whatever Celestion did, they well understood the use case of a loud speaker for guitar IRs. Its the "easy button" IMHO for making a guitar cab for IRs.

Thanks for reading, hope it helps you. I work for a big software company not a speaker company. No freebies or endorsements here!


Paul


PS - Interesting detail, the Forte has internal baffles and vents on the sides for better radiation of sound, I haven't tried it yet in a room that wasn't rather dampened so I can't say how well that works. I know its not a reference design for the F12 but I think people get wrapped up in specs and have lost the "if it sounds good, it is good' spirit of rock and roll, and that is all I shoot for. : )
 
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I am with you on the F12 in a 1x12 forte cab. I use two of them stacked. Once I did, I stopped spending money on this subject and went back to focusing on playing. All of the points you make are exactly what I experienced. I use both of my CLR for vocal monitors now and sold my xitone. I even replaced the speakers in my Matrix Q12a with the F12 and bypassed the Matrix cross-over. I like them better now.
 
The F12-x200 is by far the best solution I've found for my axefx3. I built the Celestion spec cabs cuz I figure there's good reason Celestion recommends them to get the most out of these speakers. After all they designed them. All I know is I'm glad I put the work into building these cuz they sound AMAZING!
 
I think I’m going to try this. Has anyone tried a 2x12 Avatar Forte cab, either horizontal or vertical? Most of the hype seems to be around the 1x12, so I could always get two and run them side-by-side.
What are you using to power it?

thanks!
 
Manny Fufish said:
I think I’m going to try this. Has anyone tried a 2x12 Avatar Forte cab, either horizontal or vertical? Most of the hype seems to be around the 1x12, so I could always get two and run them side-by-side.
What are you using to power it?

thanks!
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I recommend a class A/b or class H solid state power amp. Google class D vs class A/B and watch paul from PS audio youtube videos. He explains the technology really well. I've gotten great results driving them with a class H with tons of power/headroom. 530watts per channel. That way the amp isn't even close to clipping or distorting. Clean low THD power. I just set my amp gain at 1-2oclock and use the output knob on the axefx to control volume. I'm using a cheap Behringer epx4000 and it sounds so good I cancelled the class A/B crown I had on order that was twice the price. Hope that helps.🤘
 
Justincase said:
I recommend a class A/b or class H solid state power amp. Google class D vs class A/B and watch paul from PS audio youtube videos. He explains the technology really well. I've gotten great results driving them with a class H with tons of power/headroom. 530watts per channel. That way the amp isn't even close to clipping or distorting. Clean low THD power. I just set my amp gain at 1-2oclock and use the output knob on the axefx to control volume. I'm using a cheap Behringer epx4000 and it sounds so good I cancelled the class A/B crown I had on order that was twice the price. Hope that helps.🤘
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It does, thanks man, and I will check out the YouTube videos you mentioned.

I believe I’m gonna order a vertical 2x12 Avatar Forte cabinet because it seems to be built exactly like two 1x12s sitting on top of each other. The horizontal Forte seems to be built differently. I already ordered two of the speakers.
I’m pretty stoked to try this out!!
 
Manny Fufish said:
It does, thanks man, and I will check out the YouTube videos you mentioned.

I believe I’m gonna order a vertical 2x12 Avatar Forte cabinet because it seems to be built exactly like two 1x12s sitting on top of each other. The horizontal Forte seems to be built differently. I already ordered two of the speakers.
I’m pretty stoked to try this out!!
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Those are interesting looking cabs. I almost ordered some cheap ebay 1x12 cabs but was leary after reading that some people were having mixed results using non celestion spec cabs. So I decided to roll up my sleeves and break out the table saw. Lol. I'm super happy with the end result. I did adjust the low res freq in the amp block to 75. Pretty sure that's the resonant frequency celestion lists for these speakers. Best of luck! 🤘
 
Justincase said:
Those are interesting looking cabs. I almost ordered some cheap ebay 1x12 cabs but was leary after reading that some people were having mixed results using non celestion spec cabs. So I decided to roll up my sleeves and break out the table saw. Lol. I'm super happy with the end result. I did adjust the low res freq in the amp block to 75. Pretty sure that's the resonant frequency celestion lists for these speakers. Best of luck! 🤘
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Cool, I might try a build as well. Thanks a lot man!
 
One concern I have is that in spite of the coax design, my understanding is that these are somewhat beamy, like a guitar cab, not ideal.

What's the loaded weight of the 2x12 Forte? It has to be getting up there. Or is this just for stationary home use?
 
Dave Merrill said:
One concern I have is that in spite of the coax design, my understanding is that these are somewhat beamy, like a guitar cab, not ideal.

What's the loaded weight of the 2x12 Forte? It has to be getting up there. Or is this just for stationary home use?
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I don't know if they are "beamy". I use two in stereo. They fill a room better than two headrush or Yamaha club series PAs. Guy across the street says they sound great. Lol. Built to celestion specs each of my cabs weigh 30lbs. Not sure about the forte cabs
 
I'm using a Tone Block 200. Sounds good. I'd like to try the Pedal Baby and see if it feels different.
(I don't think the tone differences between Class A/B and Class D are actually audible for my middle-aged ears.)

These are not as beamy as traditional speakers, but not as dispersed as a CLR wedge.
I think this is b/c of the speaker mounting in a cab vs a wedge, its also why it holds together better at high volume I think.
Most things in music are trade-offs. : ) Which is the right one for you is what matters.

This is the right one for loud rock IME.
 
Awesome that it sounds great with the forte style cabs. I have had the Cutthroat version since they came out. I have a Cream Alnico in mine, and it's the best cab I have used with all my tube amps, and my favorite with the AxeIII. Until I bought the EV PXM about a month ago (Cygnus has something to do with it too).

I use the ML Zilla cream alnico 160 IR, and have it dialed in at gig volume to almost match the forte. But, I like the IR better, more "alive" to me. I was trying to decide between this or the new triple cone to try in the forte so I can leave that at the rehearsal spot and not have to travel with a cab. I'm gonna order the FX12-200 now.
 
Dave Merrill said:
One concern I have is that in spite of the coax design, my understanding is that these are somewhat beamy, like a guitar cab, not ideal.

What's the loaded weight of the 2x12 Forte? It has to be getting up there. Or is this just for stationary home use?
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I wouldn’t see the fact that they are beamy like a guitar cab to be a bad thing in this scenario.
In fact, I would want them to react Exactly like a guitar cab, just filled with whatever speakers the IR specifies. I wouldn’t be looking for a monitor to disperse the sound in this use case, I already have that. I’m looking for a guitar cab, I can change on the fly. I want exactly what I have now, minus the screwdriver. 😉
 
Agree. If you want a monitor, get that. Don't fight a design's nature. People waste a lot of time doing that.

What the speaker is loaded in is as important as anything else. I learned this with my Fryette era VHT 4x12 next to my bandmates Mesa 4x12 a decade ago. The Mesa thumped and held together like nothing I'd ever heard for rhythm work, but my VHT smoked it on projection for single note work. If I was a rock star I'd channel switch between CABS! : )

No mystery, the speakers sat deeper in the heavier Mesa cab and were practically touching the grill cloth on my lighter VHT cab.
 
The forte cabs are chunky. Even though they do some weight reduction techniques on the construction, the are still not light weight cabs. I love the pair that I have but I always go for stacked instead of horizontal or wade pan stereo just become a pair of stacked 2x12 seem to have a better left/right dispersion vs. horizontal 2x12 - research line array speaker systems. Plus, stacked 2x12 takes up less stage space and we are getting shoved into smaller stages all the time to make more room for paying patrons.
 
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I too prefer dual 1x12s in whatever spread you can get away with.
The main reason is, sometimes one cab is enough. Why carry more?
You can also do useful things like point one cab right at the drummer or bass player and another at yourself.
Be well heard with less overall volume. A wise goal, take it from a middle aged guy about protecting your hearing : )
 
These are good points. I will be 52 this year and I have definitely experienced hearing loss of upper frequencies, so I get where you’re coming from.

I’m thinking I will either go with two 1x12s or a 2x12 vertical with separate input jacks for each speaker so I can use a different IR in each, and mix and match 2x12 combos.
 
The other thing I've done is use an IR to left channel via the F12 and a standard speaker to to the right channel, usually my Mesa Recto 1x12. Its a cool mix of sounds. I often use the F12 for a vintage Greenback sound but without the super low wattage worries.

I use an SD700 for stereo power and it can handle this no problem.
 
FPFL said:
The other thing I've done is use an IR to left channel via the F12 and a standard speaker to to the right channel, usually my Mesa Recto 1x12. Its a cool mix of sounds. I often use the F12 for a vintage Greenback sound but without the super low wattage worries.

I use an SD700 for stereo power and it can handle this no problem.
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Is the SD700 the Seymour Duncan? I was thinking about trying one of those so it would be good to hear that you really like it...
 
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