Does your band run mono or stereo guitars live?

Two guitarists in my band and I have us using same amp models but different IR's with a slight pan. Probably about 10:00 and 2:00 as well. Works out great.
 
ChristThePhone said:
Not sure if simple EQing would make a signal stereo. The human brain calculates direction and distance to the source based on the time differences between the left and the right ear receiving the same signal. This means you need at least some delay to achieve a stereo effect. For this reason the cab block support short delay dials.
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Even with some delay, it will still feel like everything is coming more or less from the same place in the middle although it might feel wide. Even the smallest EQ difference between the two sides will give different signals in the two sides, so it will no longer be mono (and therefore, it is stereo per definition). So from there, the question is only how wide a stereo feel you desire.

I think all the stereo tricks have been mentioned already. Enhancer, chorus, Haas effect (delay)
 
I been running mono with all my Fractal gear since the Ultra. However, I am now exploring the use of going stereo since I now play mostly in smaller venues with a Duo using backing tracks. The effect can be very dramatic and impressive if employed right.

Heck,....most all DJs I know run stereo.

What I’m concerned about is making sure the patches work fine whenever I need to go back to mono with the outputs. This may require separate banks with the same patches optimized for mono.

Not sure copy L>R will suffice properly.
 
You can choose to sum L+R as well. It's easy to flip back and forth between stereo and mono to verify the preset works ok and no cancellation occurs.
 
We run stereo - my guitar and the keyboard player run stereo. I don’t make too much of a dependency on stereo but it is nice for a wide chorus or univibe/Leslie type thing. Stereo delays add some distance which is a little fun.
 
ChristThePhone said:
Not sure if simple EQing would make a signal stereo. The human brain calculates direction and distance to the source based on the time differences between the left and the right ear receiving the same signal. This means you need at least some delay to achieve a stereo effect. For this reason the cab block support short delay dials.
Click to expand...

Smittefar said:
Even with some delay, it will still feel like everything is coming more or less from the same place in the middle although it might feel wide. Even the smallest EQ difference between the two sides will give different signals in the two sides, so it will no longer be mono (and therefore, it is stereo per definition). So from there, the question is only how wide a stereo feel you desire.
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I know it is different EQ in the two sides, but how does it become stereo without any delay?
 
Stereo just means that the signals in the two sides are different - even by the slightest amount. It is basically binary, if the signal in the two sides are identical, it is mono, otherwise it is stereo.

But that is probably not the effect you are looking for. You seem to be looking for some sort of double-tracking simulation, and yes for that you need a bit of delay as well as some EQ differences. The enhancer block is great for this purpose. But this is me guessing. What exactly do you mean, when you say stereo?

To me true stereo is two guitar players panned hard left and right. We can do all sorts of tricks to emulate that sound with one guitar player. But we will never get there completely, and the harder we try, the more phase cancellation issues, we get. So it will always be a balance.
 
Smittefar said:
Stereo just means that the signals in the two sides are different - even by the slightest amount. It is basically binary, if the signal in the two sides are identical, it is mono, otherwise it is stereo.

But that is probably not the effect you are looking for. You seem to be looking for some sort of double-tracking simulation, and yes for that you need a bit of delay as well as some EQ differences. The enhancer block is great for this purpose. But this is me guessing. What exactly do you mean, when you say stereo?

To me true stereo is two guitar players panned hard left and right. We can do all sorts of tricks to emulate that sound with one guitar player. But we will never get there completely, and the harder we try, the more phase cancellation issues, we get. So it will always be a balance.
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I am getting more confused by this myself... :)

Anyway, I play in a metal band and I have thought about running stereo for some time. We are two guitarists, both mono. I guess that the sound engineer pans each guitar a little L and R. So if you are standing in the middle of the audience you will hear both clearly and get the best audio experience. My concern is for the people who are standing on the edges. They will hear more of one guitar and less of the other I guess? So let's say we both run stereo (or only me who plays most of the rhythm), would not that give the audience in the edges a better experience and make them have an audio experience that is more similar to the people in the center?
 
Hansen said:
So let's say we both run stereo (or only me who plays most of the rhythm), would not that give the audience in the edges a better experience and make them have an audio experience that is more similar to the people in the center?
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That’s the same as running both guitars mono and not panning them, the original topic of this whole thing.

Your concern for what “information” is in each speaker and keeping them the same on each side has almost nothing to do with guitars sending a mono or stereo signal to the mixer. It’s not about what gets sent to the mixer, it’s about how it is mixed and panned on the mixer.
 
Chris is exactly right. And whether the two guitars should be panned both center, a little to each side or all the way to each side, depends entirely on the venue and the PA.
 
benvigil said:
Did you watch that Dave Rat video?
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I saw it a long time ago. But the issue here is Hansen is describing putting both guitars in “stereo” for the purpose of having the same thing in each side.

Having the same thing in each side is the same whether it’s “stereo” or mono sends. Same = Same.

I think most of this thread isn’t about the actual mix that the engineer does or the audience hears, but questioning sending 1 Output vs 2 from a guitar.
 
The point of video is simply that even when dealing with "mono" signals, there are a lot of advantages to sending two distinct sources to each side of the house, even when those two sources are carrying substantially the same signal, in terms of our perception. You can create those sources with however you want (mic'ing two cabinets or IRs, using two amps, etc.), but if they are different enough, then doing so eliminates phase issues that exist when sending a truly identical mono signal to both sides of the house.

Of course, stereo-based effects (e.g. enhance/detune blocks, chorus, ping pong delays, etc.) are a whole 'nother story.
 
benvigil said:
there are a lot of advantages to sending two distinct sources to each side of the house, even when those two sources are carrying substantially the same signal
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agreed. but i think for the most part, from what i can gather from various statements, Hansen would be going "stereo" but sending the exact same signal left and right. if it is different, then great, but various times within this thread it seemed to be the same signal.

so my point is if you send the exact same signal left and right, it's the same as sending a single mono signal. some people are still calling it "stereo" just because they use 2 output cables, regardless of what's actually in each signal.

from there, if you have a Stereo output from both guitars and pan both full left and right, even with true stereo somethings coming from each guitar, both guitars being panned the same will yield pretty much a similar result as both being mono in terms of audience experience, spatialization, etc. it seems the thought was if "stereo" was happening with both guitars, the middle of the field would magically get spread around to everyone. you're still hard panning things at the mixer, so it's almost like you have 4 mono guitars, 2 on each side (potentially, depending on actual preset setup).

there's a few different discussions/explanations going on in the same question, so it's getting a bit confusing.
 
chris said:
so my point is if you send the exact same signal left and right, it's the same as sending a single mono signal. some people are still calling it "stereo" just because they use 2 output cables, regardless of what's actually in each signal.
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Agreed 100%

chris said:
from there, if you have a Stereo output from both guitars and pan both full left and right, even with true stereo somethings coming from each guitar, both guitars being panned the same will yield pretty much a similar result as both being mono in terms of audience experience, spatialization, etc.
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Depends on what you mean by "true stereo somethings" -- if you're just talking stereo delays and such, then yes. But if you can increase the difference between each side of the stereo signal (different amps, IRs, etc), then I disagree. The spatialization will improve and you'll eliminate phasing and modal issues as you move throughout the venue because you never have the same signal coming from two different point sources.

1 or 2 guitarists... doesn't matter.
 
chris said:
That’s the same as running both guitars mono and not panning them, the original topic of this whole thing.
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Are you saying that both running stereo, both have to channels at FOH panned L and R, is the same thing and audio experience for the audience as both running mono and panned center? Would not the first option give more width in the sound?
 
chris said:
agreed. but i think for the most part, from what i can gather from various statements, Hansen would be going "stereo" but sending the exact same signal left and right. if it is different, then great, but various times within this thread it seemed to be the same signal.

so my point is if you send the exact same signal left and right, it's the same as sending a single mono signal. some people are still calling it "stereo" just because they use 2 output cables, regardless of what's actually in each signal.
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Maybe I was unclear but I think we agree because I agree with what you write: "if you send the exact same signal left and right, it's the same as sending a single mono signal". Hence I was surprised when Smittefar wrote in previous posts that you would get stereo even when sending the same signal, however different EQ, to L and R. I was sure you needed some kind of delay (enhancer) so that you are actually sending two separate input signals to L and R.

So we seem to agree on this I guess?
 
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