Does the AX8 have an audio gap?

[SoProg]

So I checked, if there is an audio gap, when you switch the same amp X/Y - In this case, I even had exactly the same parameters on X and Y (I copied x to y)

Here is the preset layout - It's as simple as can be

Here, I just struck a chord and use the Amp X/Y toggle footswitch (Ax8edit was paused)

First the sound

And then we take a look in reaper

You can easily see that there are dropouts

If we zoom in, we can see that the dropout is only 0.065 seconds

This is clearly audible, when you hold a chord or a note, but it is a small problem, if the guitar part changes at the same time.

This is around the minimum gap too. In more realistic cpu heavy presets, it's longer.

I get that for people's Creed cover acts this isn't an issue.. But for many people moving from a 3 channel amp to ax8, really feels like losing 67% of your channels, even though there Are ways to compensate.

 

[Ericbr1]

So I checked, if there is an audio gap, when you switch the same amp X/Y - In this case, I even had exactly the same parameters on X and Y (I copied x to y)

Here is the preset layout - It's as simple as can be

Here, I just struck a chord and use the Amp X/Y toggle footswitch (Ax8edit was paused)

First the sound

And then we take a look in reaper

You can easily see that there are dropouts

If we zoom in, we can see that the dropout is only 0.065 seconds

This is clearly audible, when you hold a chord or a note, but it is a small problem, if the guitar part changes at the same time.

Did you do that without Axe-Edit hooked up at all? i.e. not pausing it, but just not hooked up at all. . Is it still exactly the same? Just curious. . I don't use X/Y amps at all, and use scene controllers for amp -gain changes, and expression pedal modifiers for amp -gain changes, and have no dropout at all that way. . But I thought I remembered X/Y having no dropout at all when using the same amps too (I don't use Axe-Edit) .. Thanks! Eric

 

[Smittefar]

This is with Ax8edit paused - should be the same as not hooked up

 

[Ericbr1]

This is with Ax8edit paused - should be the same as not hooked up

Should be, just checking though! I found a HUGE Gap, if I was still in the 'editing menu' on the Ax8, even if I wasn't changing anything. . EXIT out to the FS screen though, and there was no gap at all. Eric

 

[Smittefar]

Did you record it? If not, the click from pressing the footswitch would mask the small audio gap (at least at the volume levels, I use at home)

I will make more tests tonight

I will also try to achieve the longest possible audio gap (with Ax8 on the FS screen and no Ax8edit)

 

[Will Chen]

So I checked, if there is an audio gap, when you switch the same amp X/Y - In this case, I even had exactly the same parameters on X and Y (I copied x to y)
...This is clearly audible, when you hold a chord or a note, but it is a small problem, if the guitar part changes at the same time.

Wow you're absolutely correct, I checked last night and found a similar brief pause. Interesting as I hadn't really noticed it in this preset likely due to using it in tunes which I have been playing for a long long time with various gear and have likely built a subconscious small pause to accommodate switching delay.

 

[Ericbr1]

Wow you're absolutely correct, I checked last night and found a similar brief pause. Interesting as I hadn't really noticed it in this preset likely due to using it in tunes which I have been playing for a long long time with various gear and have likely built a subconscious small pause to accommodate switching delay.

Just out of curiosity what are you using the X and Y option for (using the same amp) ?

 

[Will Chen]

Just out of curiosity what are you using the X and Y option for (using the same amp) ?

I have the same amp set to X and Y but with different settings (clean and driven). I have each assigned to a scene as I'm switching some other stuff at the same time.

 

[Ericbr1]

I have the same amp set to X and Y but with different settings (clean and driven). I have each assigned to a scene as I'm switching some other stuff at the same time.

So try that using Scene Controllers instead of X /Y. There is ZERO switching gap if you do that. (to my ears anway. .lol). I haven't found any situation where I need to use the "Y" for amp switching, as there's too much of a gap when actually switching amps, and I do it with scene controllers for just 'gain/trim,etc' changes.

 

[Smittefar]

Actually, the scene controllers have a minimum damping of 0.01 seconds - still faster than x/y switching, and it is not a gap, it is a continous change.

I have stopped using scene controllers for this. It works great, but I find that it is too cumbersome to set up. I prefer to use filter/EQ/vol blocks to add a (sometimes frequency specific) boost or cut to the amp.

Here is the same preset as yesterday, but this time with no USB connection to Ax8. There are still very short drop-outs

 

[Will Chen]

So try that using Scene Controllers instead of X /Y. There is ZERO switching gap if you do that. (to my ears anway. .lol). I haven't found any situation where I need to use the "Y" for amp switching, as there's too much of a gap when actually switching amps, and I do it with scene controllers for just 'gain/trim,etc' changes.

Doesn't that only work if the parameters are assignable? I'm switching a few things which do not appear to be assignable, but maybe I don't fully understand the scene controllers.

 

[Nozkcb]

When switching amps, I've found no way to not have an audio gap. As stated by others, considering the AX8 has less processing power than the AEII, it's not surprising.

I too would love to go from my choice Vox 2x12 to a Plexi 4x12 instantly but, it seems it's not possible.

Like others have mentioned, it's not something that FRS concealed from customers either. Also, considering the substantial cost difference between the AX8 and the AEII, it's not unreasonable for this to be the case.

I use pedals and other means to get more bang out of a single patch (i.e. clean, dirty, lead) but would REALLY like to go from Vox to Plexi to JCM in an instant.

If they could figure out how to do that in the same form factor at (or near) the same price, that would make for good specs for the AX8 II. OH! Also add a second input and/or 2 mono efx loops and a flip'n headphone jack too!

 

[Ericbr1]

Doesn't that only work if the parameters are assignable? I'm switching a few things which do not appear to be assignable, but maybe I don't fully understand the scene controllers.

Nope you're exactly right. I thought about that after I posted. If you're changing eq's with your x/y , yea it won't work (unless you change the eq by inserting a filter, para, or graphic eq block , and then it would!) I'm only using the scene controllers for varying the levels of gain on a few amps and it works great for me, but I understand if someone needs more changes.

 

[Ericbr1]

Actually, the scene controllers have a minimum damping of 0.01 seconds - still faster than x/y switching, and it is not a gap, it is a continous change.

I have stopped using scene controllers for this. It works great, but I find that it is too cumbersome to set up. I prefer to use filter/EQ/vol blocks to add a (sometimes frequency specific) boost or cut to the amp.

Here is the same preset as yesterday, but this time with no USB connection to Ax8. There are still very short drop-outs

Did you find the dropouts were shorter without the usb connection , or exactly the same? Eric (p.s. thanks for posting this stuff.. I love reading the scientific stuff, as I'm only a guitarist and don't have the patience to do that stuff for myself! lol. (although my brother is a scientist and dad was!) Eric

 

[Mincer]

I will see if I can test to see how big the drop out is when the looper is running and presets are changed (with looper in the same position/same settings).

 

[Smittefar]

@Ericbr1 - Well - I am engineer with a disturbing need to measure stuff

The audio drop out with no USB connection was ~0.055 seconds. The difference is so small that I cannot tell, if there is a real difference or not.

 

[Smittefar]

OK - this time, I went completely crazy

I made a preset that came very close to the CPU limit, I switched all blocks x->y when going from scene 1 to scene 2, and I did my best to make sure, all blocks had to change algorithms when going x/y

Here is scene 1

Here is scene 2

Notice that scene 2 is running on 89%

All delays and reverbs are set to 0% mix, otherwise they would mask the dropout with their spillover

Here is the preset https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10538417/Board Ax8/Dropout/DropOut StressTest.syx

And here is the result

Scene 2->Scene 1 takes longer time, since Scene 2 is 89%. It takes 1.4 seconds

That is definitely a long time, but then again, I would never design a preset like that.

Just switching Amp x/y in this preset is faster.

 

[Mincer]

When the AX8 isn't USB'd to the computer (but using SPDIF out), the gap when the looper is running and the preset is changed seems to be about 50ms. The looper in both presets has the same setttings , and is in the same place (at the end) in both presets. This doesn't sound like a big gap, but when you are playing solo and changing presets with vastly different sounds, it is pretty obvious.
To be fair, if I switch into an identical preset with the looper running, the gap is about half the time, but there is no real reason to do that.

 

[rgx612a]

I use midi channel switching and as others have put it; in 2016 this really shouldn't be an issue. My 18y old rack proc could do it and carry over delay tails, why not now. Also modifying all my existing midi tracks to try to use scenes (that still have dropout issues) is not appealing and squashes the ability to drop in a backup rack rig should something go down. I was truly shocked to see that even switching identical presets caused a gap. Even with some great tones there I'm afraid like others I'll be selling this off. Not happy about it, but I've spent months trying to work a usable trade off and like others have found its just not possible.

 

[chris]

My 18y old rack proc could do it and carry over delay tails, why not now.

the fact that it's 2016 has nothing to do with it. old gear that is doing much, much less processing can switch quickly because it's doing much, much less processing.