Does the AX8 have an audio gap?

[Smilzo]

So the amp block needs to run silently for a bit so things will settle. Then we unmute the block. This mute period is what you are hearing.

For me mute gap is not a problem. But what about a user fast-normal-long muting gap?

 

[atquinn]

That is true. Since there are three amps, you would need to use amp block x/y in one of the two amp blocks. The audio gap is smaller on the XL, but it is there.

Your specific example was "Silverface twin for your cleans and then a JCM800 for drive, and MESA MarkIV for leads,". Now the exact method would vary given the progression of the song, but it would basically be something like Amp1X is clean, Amp2X is drive and Amp1Y is leads. Now, lets assuming verse is clean, chorus is drive and solo is after the chorus. Switching from verse to chorus would be gapless. If you didn't have an advanced midi pedal, you would have to set a scene for the chorus before the solo that switching to Amp2X and at the same time, switched the Amp1 (and a cab) to the lead state. Then you could switch to your lead sound from that chorus and it would be gapless. Then back to the closing chorus on the drive sound, also gapless.

Like, I said, it depends on the flow of the song, but switching between 3 amps gaplessly would be possible in the great majority of cases. Switching between 4, probably not. And switching between any combination in a random-access, gapless fashion (not what I took your example as being) is not possible with more than 2.
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Austin

 

[Smittefar]

I am pretty sure that AxeFX XL+ mutes the sound, even if the x/y change happens in an bypassed block. I seem to remember a thread, where that turned out to be the problem. On the other hand, it is probably solved, if the two amp blocks are in parallel.

Anyhow, it is a stretch to call it gapless, if only a select number of transitions are allowed.

 

[atquinn]

I am pretty sure that AxeFX XL+ mutes the sound, even if the x/y change happens in an bypassed block. I seem to remember a thread, where that turned out to be the problem. On the other hand, it is probably solved, if the two amp blocks are in parallel.

Anyhow, it is a stretch to call it gapless, if only a select number of transitions are allowed.

If you're switching between amp blocks, parallel is the way to do it (IMO). And in that case, there's no gap IME. And as far as calling it gapless or not, I was just using the criteria you introduced

At any rate, I've thought from the beginning that people that expected anything to be done about this were probably barking up the wrong tree since the same gap (albeit smaller) exists in the AX8's bigger brother. Surely if it was something that could be fixed, it would have already been fixed there.
-
Austin

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Some songs that go from clean to crunch very quickly the audio drop out is an issue. I've been trying to pre time my stomp but ideally I think I will revamp my patch to tie gain to a controller and use the same amp. For me it's only a few songs. Think iron maiden Revelations. A lot of back and forth going on very quickly. For most other songs it's not an issue but sure would be nice if it was improved.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

One question, if you run a direct line in parallel with an amp block, does the entire output get muted on switch or just the amp output? If it's just the amp block there could be room for a work around.

 

[Smittefar]

I think, it is only the block that gets muted.

Did you switch to pedal down action rather than pedal up? I found that my timing improved greatly just by doing that.

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Yes, pedal down helps a bunch.

 

[Albion]

A minimal audio gap is normal...
Axe fx has a minimal gap but it's not a problem.
Ax8 has a longer gap... Also in scene change and also using the same amp.. Just adding delay, drive and modifying volume...
I don't know if it depends on high court use.. I will make some tests..
But it's noticeable in a normal live situation.. It's a gap and a lag...

 

[aquadementia]

First post! I've had my AX8 since May and have been rehearsing with it regularly. Last weekend I used it live for the first time. I play in a proggy/techy metal band with songs that include a lot of quick switching between heavily distorted dry sounds and Fender cleans with lots of reverb. I have to say I was a bit worried about the lag being an issue at first, but it turned out it really wasn't. When you factor in an additional guitar, bass, drums, synth backtracks and a wailing vocalist, it's not really noticable (can't tell from listening to recordings of the show at least). Sure, you'll have to work a little on timing your footswitching. Decided to go for straight preset changes for switching between dirt and clean, and the next time I'll probably try scenes with X/Y amps within the same preset and see which works best. Used to play a standard Axe-FX with a Behringer midi board live, and it had the gap aswell. A bit worse even.

I fully understand that this can be a big issue for others, and getting some sort of fix would only make an awesome product even better.

 

[Balrog]

or some kind of mixer blend into the other model.. might mask it? thinking out loud.

I had presets on my Ultra set up this way, but you needed two separate amp blocks in the preset to do it. I had two separate signal chains, one clean, one dirty and an expression pedal linked to mixer blocks to morph between the two. Pedal up=clean, pedal down=dirty. Worked perfect, you could play continuously through the transition.

 

[jhbpa]

Well, I believe the Helix (I have both it and AXE8 and previously owned AXE FX II) can solve this problem because you can have multiple amps per preset.

The Helix can get damn close to sounding as good as an AXE8 with Ownhammer aftermarket IR's. Add in the simplicity of the interface, and overall it might be a better live solution for some folks.

 

[philipacamaniac]

A minimal audio gap is normal...
Axe fx has a minimal gap but it's not a problem.
Ax8 has a longer gap... Also in scene change and also using the same amp.. Just adding delay, drive and modifying volume...
I don't know if it depends on high court use.. I will make some tests..
But it's noticeable in a normal live situation.. It's a gap and a lag...

This is incorrect. Scene changes that don't involve Amp XY are instantaneous. Footswitch settings (downstroke or upstroke) can slow the feel, as can having AX8-Edit active, or having damping values on modifiers that a Scene controller is adjusting.

 

[cragginshred]

I am so stoked this is being discussed at length and the Cliff is well aware pretty much every one of us want seamless switching. We are content to wait for the engineers figure out how to do it.

Maybe there could be Thread where we all chime in asking that this be Request #1 in the Wish list???

 

[chrisjnyc]

I'll have engineering look into ways of reducing it. The problem is that our modeling is very detailed and whenever the amp model changes the "virtual circuit" needs to be reconfigured. We can switch quickly but often this causes clicks and pops due to the reconfiguration. So the amp block needs to run silently for a bit so things will settle. Then we unmute the block. This mute period is what you are hearing.

Most other products just use a fixed algorithm and change the input/output EQ and gain. With this type of algorithm you can switch quickly without clicks and pops but, of course, you don't get the realism and detail.

Based on what Cliff mentioned, if you use the same amp for X and Y, with one being clean and one being dirty (using different gain settings)... would that cut down "virtual circuit" being reconfigured\audio gap?

 

[Smilzo]

Some amps (or settings) seems to have longer time or great burst/spike. I think setting mute gap per preset/scene by user could be the definitive solution...

 

[fourtet]

Decade ago I played in a band with super busy guitar parts using Line 6 with - I'm sure - greater than 0.1 sec gap and really never bothered me. Good music and good guitar playing can overcome anything . OTOH - why to mess within amp settings if there's so many different amps to choose from? Where's the purpose for this all?

 

[PopLife]

Must say that I have been following this product very closely online for a few months, and was keen to purchase until the audio gap between switching amps x/y was mentioned (it doesnt get mentioned in most demo vids). I've only seen one vid online that actually demonstates this lag and I have to say it is the only reason I haven't purchased one. But at Aus$2400, it is a steep price to pay without having seamless use of x/y amp switching. If that switching gap wasn't there , I'd be onboard happily.

 

[count_chocolat]

There is a gap, my real life amps had a gap. It's all about how you use it. Some people think a gap is very sexy.

 

[SoProg]

Must say that I have been following this product very closely online for a few months, and was keen to purchase until the audio gap between switching amps x/y was mentioned (it doesnt get mentioned in most demo vids). I've only seen one vid online that actually demonstates this lag and I have to say it is the only reason I haven't purchased one. But at Aus$2400, it is a steep price to pay without having seamless use of x/y amp switching. If that switching gap wasn't there , I'd be onboard happily.

While I don't regret my ax8 purchase, I am really sad that I'll never have both a great high gain sound and a great clean sound, since my music has lots of fast switching and I have to use scene controllers on a single amp.
Sometimes I'll still play one of my real 3 channel amps to remember what is was like.. But for me, not having to carry those amps around still makes the ax8 worth it.. I'll just always miss having a clean channel.