Does Out 1 (Main) effect anything other than volume?

J

jooles15

Member
I’ve read that Out 1 (Main) should be set to maximum for unity gain. I set all my presets to about half volume on Out 1 before I learnt of this. Does the position affect tone or anything other than volume?
 
jooles15 said:
I’ve read that Out 1 (Main) should be set to maximum for unity gain. I set all my presets to about half volume on Out 1 before I learnt of this. Does the position affect tone or anything other than volume?
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Out 1 Main should NOT be set to maximum in all situations.

Unity gain is measured with Shunts only. Once you add other blocks, you are probably louder than Unity Gain.

Use the volume knob as a volume knob. It will not change anything other than volume/level coming out of the AX8. Here are more of my thoughts on this:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/a-few-questions-about-foh.142368/#post-1689559

chris said:
This topic has many threads :)

In my experience, you can run the Out 1 Level knob really anywhere without any added noise or issue. I usually recommend starting at 9 o clock and going up to 3 o clock if needed, especially if you are not control of the mixer or next device at a gig.

Some recommend turning all the way up for best signal to noise ratio, but I’ve honestly never heard any “noise” from keeping it lower. I’d love to hear some if anyone has experienced this. Whenever someone mentions noise or is afraid of noise, I imagine they hear a static sound that’s 10x louder than their guitar playing haha. I’ve never experienced an issue like this ever in audio when it comes to XLR vs 1/4”, low vs high output knob, etc.

Some also recommend turning all the way up and then keeping your mixer or interface preamp gain turned all the way down to prevent coloration from the preamps. Again, I personally have not had any issue with this. But maybe something to keep in mind. Some say they hear the difference, but try it for yourself and see if it’s an actual issue.

However, at most live performances where you don’t control the mixer, the sound engineer will not run his channels with the gain all the way down. They are just not used to this and for some reason most think they HAVE to have some gain on the channel or “it won’t sound good” or even “doesn’t work.” This is not true at all, but I’m there to play music, not convince a sound guy how to do his job or teach how gear works. Because of this you rarely will be able to turn your AX8 all the way up at a gig (and you don’t need to anyway). They will immediately tell you to turn down because you’re sending too much signal, all while their channel gain is set to 12 o clock - the best and required setting for mixers!!! (That is a joke.)

So that’s why I recommend the range of 9 o clock to 3 o clock, working with the sound guy to get what he wants from your gear. Again, in 10 years of using the Axe gear, I’ve never ever had issue with running less than full volume - it’s a volume knob, it’s there to be turned down and the range used. If it was meant to turn all the way up, there wouldn’t be a knob (like how the FX8 is designed).

Unity Gain means what goes in comes out. Unity gain is initially measured with SHUNTS only. Once you add an Amp block or other level changing block, you aren’t at unity gain and usually much louder. So blindly turning all the way up to “be at unity gain” is usually not accurate and louder, not at unity gain. You can be at unity gain with a full preset, you just have to set the level that way specifically.

Because you’re in a recording environment, you can use techniques like the ones shown in this thread and other similar techniques where you use a DAW to help you level your presets to achieve true Unity Gain for a particular consistent level, thus with your AX8 turned up all the way both for consistency (hard stop on the knob) and best signal to noise ratio.

But what you’re doing is probably working just as well without added noise or issue at all.

On a forum and the internet in general, there will be a range of acceptable practices and techniques when it comes to gear. Because of this range, there will always be people who suggest the absolute most ideal way of doing whatever is in question. Nothing wrong with this at all if the information is factual and correct, which many times it is. But this “most ideal” answer usually doesn’t work in multiple situations and also might require additional gear or knowledge or processes which make a simple task seem very daunting.

That’s why it’s good to have multiple views and answers that fit different situations, and hopefully the person asking can compare and use what works best for them.

Think of threads like “best monitor” or “best cables” or best anything really. You have some people suggesting $10,000 speakers or $300 cables and it can make people think using the Fractal gear is way too hard or expensive. Well... the question did ask for the “best” and to some people the most expensive is the best. But usually people mean “best for my situation.” So maybe a $200 speaker is what is needed.

A bit of a tangent, but this topic comes up almost weekly and I just want to provide some perspective for new users who may see the first response of “you must use a $10,000 speaker”, and then freak out because someone on the internet said so. :)
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chris said:
Out 1 Main should NOT be set to maximum in all situations.

Unity gain is measured with Shunts only. Once you add other blocks, you are probably louder than Unity Gain.

Use the volume knob as a volume knob. It will not change anything other than volume/level coming out of the AX8. Here are more of my thoughts on this:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/a-few-questions-about-foh.142368/#post-1689559
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Worth noting that this topic comes up all the time and what Chris says here is his opinion that some of us disagree with.

The knob set to max is "unity gain" by what anyone reasonably means by "unity gain" when they ask about this i.e. if you imagine rewiring the AX8 to get rid of that knob, the max level is the setting that will be the equivalent to that.

I think of level knobs like this as signal-to-noise ratio knobs. If you turn it down below max, you decrease the signal level which means whatever you are plugging in to needs to up the level to compensate which means you are amplifying any noise in the signal. I don't like adding noise, therefore I run mine at max pretty much all the time.

Will the noise matter in your case? Hard to say and depends on the rest of the signal chain. Based on my experiments, anything from half to max is not a big deal. If setting it at 50% works for you, go for it.

Some people talk about running at 25% which, in my experiments, will introduce audible noise. They have to do this because they are running into a mic pre which is then boosting both the signal and the noise by ~20dB. Ideally, you'd be going into a mixer (or whatever) at line level, not mic level. If you are in a situation with confused and stubborn sound man, you gotta do what you gotta do but, otherwise, it's something easily avoidable so why not avoid it?

Also worth noting that a preset that is too hot will clip internally before it hits the output. With the out knob at max, a preset that doesn't clip will produce a line level signal that is not clipped and won't clip any inputs that are set for line level which often will be either a separate input jack or when mic gain is at 0.
 
Thanks, that’s interesting. I don’t have a noise problem with one exception - I get what I call ‘ring out’ when damping a heavily distorted sound off with the heel of my hand - no reverb added but it rings out like it has. I can completely eliminate this through judicious use of a gate.
 
Dave76 said:
The knob set to max is "unity gain" by what anyone reasonably means by "unity gain" when they ask about this i.e. if you imagine rewiring the AX8 to get rid of that knob, the max level is the setting that will be the equivalent to that.
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The definition of Unity Gain:

Unity gain is a term used when establishing the balance between pieces of audio equipment. The idea is that input should equal output, level-wise. Audio that goes into a device at one level and comes out of that device at the same level is said to be at unity gain.

If there is a standard definition of a term, the “reasonably meant” definition might not be accurate.

Unity Gain has always been measured on the Axe series as Shunts only. What goes in is what comes out. There shouldn’t be a 2nd definition of Unity Gain which means “as loud as the unit will go.”

Imagining that the knob is not there seems silly to me because the knob IS there. You can use it and it’s designed exactly for that. As I mentioned before, the FX8 does not have a knob and is therefore designed to be at that level which happens to be a Unity Gain design.

Of course if you experience noise, then gain stage as needed. In some setups I do run the AX8 knobs all the way up, but not for noise concern, more for repeatable knob position. I’m in full control of the mixer and adjust my volume there during the gig.

I personally have not experienced any noise added when running the knob at 9 o clock. I do that 3x weekly at 3 different venues with 3 different mixers and there is absolutely no issue whatsoever.

Because of various posts here and elsewhere, new users are getting the impression that turning the knob low like 9 o clock creates some very audible amount of noise that renders the AX8 useless. I’m not exaggerating - I’ve been told that and when we work through it, at first they don’t even want to try turning that low. When we “act silly” just to test things, they finally turn it low and ultimately discover that it sounds the same.

I actually had to talk some people through it when they turned down and “suddenly heard a ton of noise.” We were on Skype and I could see and hear everything. They turned the AX8 volume down and I heard no difference (they balanced the speaker volume up). They were certain they heard “a noise just as loud as their guitar.” It just wasn’t there. Strangely multiple people swear they heard the tone go to complete crap. I figured out that they had to stop playing, leave the room for a minute then come back. “Wait, did you do something?” someone asked me, actually thinking due to Skype that I adjusted their AX8 (it doesn’t work like that).

For whatever reason, these few people thought it got unusable noisy when simply turning down. But there was no added noise at all. It was in their head and they convinced themselves it was unusable. This happens often with various topics during my consultations. People have an idea in their head, and because it’s audio and not visual, people can tend to have a tough time reacting to what’s actually happening vs what they think should happen. (I’ve had someone not hear any difference in Input Gain on the amp block - sometimes they don’t know what their listening for either.)

Anyway, all that to say that this still is a confusing topic and people sometimes have predetermined notions of certain things and convince themselves of it regardless of what’s actually happening. Sorta like when someone says “oh that’s a real amp recording”, is then told it’s the Axe, and only then do they say “oh right I knew that because it sounded digital.” (I’ve done that test a few times too.)

As mentioned by Dave76 and others, adjust settings as needed to prevent noise. The Output knobs are variable for a reason, so use it as needed.

If you actually do want Unity Gain, that’s one thing. But turning all the way up for no reason can cause issues.
 
jooles15 said:
Thanks, that’s interesting. I don’t have a noise problem with one exception - I get what I call ‘ring out’ when damping a heavily distorted sound off with the heel of my hand - no reverb added but it rings out like it has. I can completely eliminate this through judicious use of a gate.
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Do you have tremolo springs on the guitar? Stuff a napkin in there and they’ll stop ringing.

If not, rarely the strings above the nut will ring out.
 
jooles15 said:
I’ve read that Out 1 (Main) should be set to maximum for unity gain. I set all my presets to about half volume on Out 1 before I learnt of this. Does the position affect tone or anything other than volume?
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Back to the original question: do you actually want Unity Gain?

Regardless, adjusting the preset and internal settings can be done with the Out 1 knob at any position. Turning the Out 1 knob has no effect on any settings you’ve done previously.
 
As far as I understand it unlike the Axe-Fx and FX8, the AX8 is not designed for unity gain at all. If you want unity gain, you'd need to do some experiments.
 
Admin M@ said:
As far as I understand it unlike the Axe-Fx and FX8, the AX8 is not designed for unity gain at all. If you want unity gain, you'd need to do some experiments.
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Some have experimented and they say that Unity Gain is achieved when the preset is leveled at the mid-line on the VU meter and the Out 1 knob is all the way up.

Regardless, the main thing I see popping up all the time is “I read I need to turn the Out 1 knob all the way up for best tone/usable noise level.” That part is just not true at all.

Further, people tell their soundguys that it needs to be all the way up and there are issues at the gig because of it - mostly because the soundguy won’t adjust things. But it happens so often and I get Private Messages from many people at the gig frequently. Then they are eventually forced to turn down and I get questions like “I was forced to turn down and I just think my tone was way worse because of it - how do I prevent that.” It then becomes a psychological conversation like I described above, where I get them to hear there’s actually no added noise at all by simply turning down.
 
Admin M@ said:
As far as I understand it unlike the Axe-Fx and FX8, the AX8 is not designed for unity gain at all. If you want unity gain, you'd need to do some experiments.
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As far as I know, what you are referring to is true when referring to gain from the input of the piece of Fractal gear to the output but unity gain is measurable across different points in a signal chain.

For something like the FX8 where you are using it to add effects between your guitar and amp, unity gain from the FX8 input to the FX8 output is vital because otherwise you'd be hitting your amp at different signal levels. The goal here is to maintain instrumental level. I don't have any experience with the FX8 but I'd have to think that this is the same as the AX8 where it is only valid to claim "unity gain" across input to output when using all shunts as it is common to use overdrives, boosters, etc. to intentionally introduce gain.

For the AX8, where in typical operation it takes an instrument level input and produces a line level output emulating a full signal chain from pedalboard to mic preamp, the concept of unity gain from input to output doesn't really make much sense to talk about. The device, by design, adds gain and you aren't typically trying to produce a guitar level output from it.

When someone asks about "unity gain" with regard to the AX8's OUT1, it is typically pretty clear from the context what they mean i.e. they are asking about optimal gain staging. In the context of a mixer, optimal gain staging with the AX8 is typically going to be with the OUT1 at max (i.e. unity gain for the OUT1 knob not the AX8 itself) and the input gain on the mixer set at 0 (i.e. unity gain for the mixer channel preamp). If you knock the signal on the AX8 down by 10dB with OUT1, you would need to turn up the mixer input gain accordingly to compensate. That sort of thing tends to be frowned upon because, for one thing, you are amplifying noise (whether you personally can hear it or care about it or not).

I've never experimented with using the AX8 as front-of-amp effects only into an amp but I suspect you'd have to have the OUT1 knob set to max for this as well i.e. all shunts plus OUT1 at max would emulate a direct cable connection from guitar to amp so "unity gain" would be the same -- OUT1 at max.
 
Dave76 said:
The goal here is to maintain instrumental level. I don't have any experience with the FX8 but I'd have to think that this is the same as the AX8 where it is only valid to claim "unity gain" across input to output when using all shunts as it is common to use overdrives, boosters, etc. to intentionally introduce gain.

...

When someone asks about "unity gain" with regard to the AX8's OUT1, it is typically pretty clear from the context what they mean i.e. they are asking about optimal gain staging. In the context of a mixer, optimal gain staging with the AX8 is typically going to be with the OUT1 at max (i.e. unity gain for the OUT1 knob not the AX8 itself) and the input gain on the mixer set at 0 (i.e. unity gain for the mixer channel preamp).
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just to clarify, it seems you are defining "Unity Gain" as 2 different things, yes? one meaning "what goes in comes out" - which is the typical definition. another meaning "turning the Out 1 knob all the way up."

"Unity Gain" specifically means what goes in comes out.

describing a knob all the way up, a mixer trim/gain set at 0, or a mixer fader set at the -0- line is called "Unity." not "Unity Gain."

though you may be setting a Gain Knob on the mixer channel, having it at 0 does not mean "Unity Gain" but can be described as "the Gain is set at Unity" though i would never, ever say that due to the confusion we're experiencing right now. i'd just say the "Gain is at Zero."

When someone asks about "unity gain" with regard to the AX8's OUT1, it is typically pretty clear from the context what they mean i.e. they are asking about optimal gain staging.
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and i have to comment directly on this statement - i disagree that it's "pretty clear" they mean optimal gain staging. yes, ultimately they want optimal gain staging, but the tutorial videos specifically use the term "Unity Gain" to mean what goes in comes out - the traditional (only) definition of "Unity Gain."

so when someone asks about Unity Gain, many times they actually don't understand what they're asking about, unfortunately.

that's why this is always being discussed. people who are new to the gear hear "unity gain" and think that is some correct setting that must be used or else the gear will sound bad. and then they hear that they need to turn the out knob up all the way to get that. then they get to the gig and they are way too loud, but tell the soundguy they "aren't allowed" to turn the out knob down because... unity gain.


If you knock the signal on the AX8 down by 10dB with OUT1, you would need to turn up the mixer input gain accordingly to compensate. That sort of thing tends to be frowned upon because, for one thing, you are amplifying noise (whether you personally can hear it or care about it or not).
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i completely agree with this. generally you want the most Source level before clipping the next device in the chain. the main problem with the "Out knob all the way up" approach though is venues and sound engineers have channels pre-set usually with the Mixer Channel trim/gain set to "12:00" roughly. there is some common "rule" in many sound guy's minds that you shouldn't run the mixer with the channel trim less than 12:00.

so we have one guy saying "i'm not allowed to turn below 12:00 trim on my mixer" vs another guy saying "i'm not allowed to turn Out 1 knob down from 100%." who wins? this happens time and time again. i get PMs all the time about this, and we have threads about this constantly.

here's one from just this morning: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/setting-output.143101/

we'll see what develops, but someone is asking how to get less signal to the mixer. i'm guessing his Out knob is all the way up. i may be wrong, but that's my guess.


For the AX8, where in typical operation it takes an instrument level input and produces a line level output emulating a full signal chain from pedalboard to mic preamp, the concept of unity gain from input to output doesn't really make much sense to talk about. The device, by design, adds gain and you aren't typically trying to produce a guitar level output from it.
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to my understanding, this is actually what those "unity gain" tutorials are trying to accomplish. i don't think they ever specifically say they want an instrument level coming out. but they typically have a specific goal for the output hitting their DAW - is it -12dB if i remember correctly?

either way, "Unity Gain" has a specific definition. turning something all the way up may be defined as a "Unity" setting, but that is different than the specific term "Unity Gain."
 
@Dave76, @chris and @austinbuddy - I guess the question I have, and maybe many others is simply - Does it matter? The reason i ask is because I'm under the impression that if you run Output 1 at 50%, you can still have 0 gain at the mixer by increasing Level in the preset to achieve channel unity at the mixer, which, if I understand correctly, should not add any noise or color the tone. Naturally, the preset will likely then be above the "unity" line on the VU meter, but as long as the signal is not clipping, does it make a difference? (this question is really only as to sound quality, I understand the "ease of use" benefit of trying to hit the VU meter unity for all my patches)
 
David Brewster said:
you can still have 0 gain at the mixer by increasing Level in the preset to achieve channel unity at the mixer, which, if I understand correctly, should not add any noise or color the tone. Naturally, the preset will likely then be above the "unity" line on the VU meter, but as long as the signal is not clipping, does it make a difference?
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the middle line on the VU meter is just a reference, true. but it is a good reference because it provides ample headroom for boosts in the future.

you are right in saying that increasing the Preset Level (typically using the Level in the Amp block) will increase the level without noise or tone change. but that is just not an ideal way to do it. why change all Preset Levels just to get more output when you can simply turn the Out 1 knob which is the "master volume" for the unit? and then if you need to use a boost block in the preset later, you're probably going to clip "internally" at that point.

we have an Out 1 physical knob. it was designed to be used to control the send of the Axe units as a whole to the next device. too loud? turn it down. too quiet? turn it up. it's very simple and the way you'd use any other volume knob.

but there is a thought circulating around that the knob "needs to" be turned all the way up to sound good, and if it's turned lower, there will be audible noise. this is just not true.

so does it make a difference? ultimately yes it does because you don't have headroom to make the preset louder in the future. set your preset levels to the middle line for your "normal volume" presets. set it higher for leads, lower if you want it lower than your normal volume presets. from there, use the highest Out 1 knob setting that you can use. i usually suggest starting an 9 o clock, up to about 3 o clock.

i suggest this range only to give some sort of "limit" more as a guide:

if you're forced to turn below 9 o clock, it's a signal that there's too much gain on the mixer channel or next device.

if you're forced to turn above 3 o clock, it's a signal that there's not enough gain on the channel or next device, or your maybe your volume pedal is turning things down, etc.

most gear works best when its output knob is within the range or 9 to 3 o clock. i've helped many people where from complete 0% on the Out Knob, they can barely turn it up because at say 1%, it's insanely loud. well this indicates a problem with the next device. you shouldn't have to use any knob where you can barely turn it.

a lot of this conversation seems very obvious if you understand Gain Staging as a concept. i've helped many, many people who for some reason have their mixers for example set at "100% volume" - just very very loud. then all of their source devices are at like 1% and they wish they could have more range on those. i help them reduce the Mixer volume, gain stage correctly, and now they can use the range of their source devices, they can use the Faders on the mixer all the way to the Unity line and not -60 dB. etc.

i see this all the time, and it's just something people have to learn at some point. it's not an indication of skill or intelligence - it's just something they haven't encountered yet and simply need to learn.

mainly this stems from people who have only ever used real Guitar Amps. these devices tend to "break the rules" of sound. distortion is GOOD. setting everything to 10 can be beneficial. "i need to play this amp loud for tone" is acceptable :D these just aren't the norm. so when they take these concepts to the normal audio world, it just doesn't work.

again, all i'm saying is the Axe devices have an Out knob which was designed to be adjusted. turn it up for good signal to noise ratio, but you can adjust it lower if you need to without anything bad happening. in the typical gigging world, you will usually run your Out knob between 9 and 3 o clock, usually on the lower end.
 
David Brewster said:
@Dave76, @chris and @austinbuddy - I guess the question I have, and maybe many others is simply - Does it matter? The reason i ask is because I'm under the impression that if you run Output 1 at 50%, you can still have 0 gain at the mixer by increasing Level in the preset to achieve channel unity at the mixer, which, if I understand correctly, should not add any noise or color the tone. Naturally, the preset will likely then be above the "unity" line on the VU meter, but as long as the signal is not clipping, does it make a difference? (this question is really only as to sound quality, I understand the "ease of use" benefit of trying to hit the VU meter unity for all my patches)
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Yes- Output1 on the Ax8 also controls the S/PDIF digital out signal. This is not the case on the Axe-Fx. If you want a Factory preset to come in at around - 12db using the S/PDIF into a DAW without adding any gain at the DAW end, you need to turn the Output1 to the max.
 
chris said:
just to clarify, it seems you are defining "Unity Gain" as 2 different things, yes? one meaning "what goes in comes out" - which is the typical definition. another meaning "turning the Out 1 knob all the way up."

"Unity Gain" specifically means what goes in comes out.

describing a knob all the way up, a mixer trim/gain set at 0, or a mixer fader set at the -0- line is called "Unity." not "Unity Gain."
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I am not defining unity gain as two different things. The term "gain" and "unity gain" have very precise technical definitions in the field of electronics. "Gain" is quite simply the ratio of output level to input. "Unity" quite simply means a ratio of 1:1 i.e. the output level is identical to the input level. "Unity" without a further qualification such as "unity gain" has no more meaning than if you walked up to the counter in a deli and declared "I will have one!" (though I wouldn't be surprised if some audio equipment manufacturers have abused the term).

You can measure gain across a multitude of different circuit elements along the signal path. As such, it is important to either clarify or determine from context exactly what part of the signal path someone is referring to when they are discussing unity gain. When someone asks about the OUT1 knob, I assume they probably mean the OUT1 knob, in which case unity gain as measured across that knob is when the knob is set at max i.e. the equivalent of replacing with a wire. I'm honestly not even sure it typically makes sense to discuss "unity gain" across the input to output of the AX8 given how much signal processing is typically used (i.e. the output signal differs by much more than a simple multiplication of the input by a gain factor).

Contrast this with the input gain knob on a mixer channel. Unity gain across the head amp in that case is when the gain is set to 0 i.e. the equivalent of replacing with a wire. Take a look at the back of a lot of powered monitors and unity gain is often with the knob in the halfway position. This is vital to understand to get the optimal performance out of the equipment.

chris said:
i completely agree with this. generally you want the most Source level before clipping the next device in the chain. the main problem with the "Out knob all the way up" approach though is venues and sound engineers have channels pre-set usually with the Mixer Channel trim/gain set to "12:00" roughly. there is some common "rule" in many sound guy's minds that you shouldn't run the mixer with the channel trim less than 12:00.

so we have one guy saying "i'm not allowed to turn below 12:00 trim on my mixer" vs another guy saying "i'm not allowed to turn Out 1 knob down from 100%." who wins? this happens time and time again. i get PMs all the time about this, and we have threads about this constantly.
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Totally agreed on this! That's why I said "If you are in a situation with confused and stubborn sound man, you gotta do what you gotta do..." in my first reply to this post. I always try to point this out when I try to explain the function of the OUT1 knob. I'm simply advocating that in an ideal world, you should have no issues with the OUT1 knob set to max and that this will give you maximum signal-to-noise in the downstream signal chain. If you have to turn it down, go for it.
 
Dave76 said:
I am not defining unity gain as two different things. The term "gain" and "unity gain" have very precise technical definitions in the field of electronics. "Gain" is quite simply the ratio of output level to input. "Unity" quite simply means a ratio of 1:1 i.e. the output level is identical to the input level. "Unity" without a further qualification such as "unity gain" has no more meaning than if you walked up to the counter in a deli and declared "I will have one!" (though I wouldn't be surprised if some audio equipment manufacturers have abused the term).

You can measure gain across a multitude of different circuit elements along the signal path. As such, it is important to either clarify or determine from context exactly what part of the signal path someone is referring to when they are discussing unity gain. When someone asks about the OUT1 knob, I assume they probably mean the OUT1 knob, in which case unity gain as measured across that knob is when the knob is set at max i.e. the equivalent of replacing with a wire. I'm honestly not even sure it typically makes sense to discuss "unity gain" across the input to output of the AX8 given how much signal processing is typically used (i.e. the output signal differs by much more than a simple multiplication of the input by a gain factor).

Contrast this with the input gain knob on a mixer channel. Unity gain across the head amp in that case is when the gain is set to 0 i.e. the equivalent of replacing with a wire. Take a look at the back of a lot of powered monitors and unity gain is often with the knob in the halfway position. This is vital to understand to get the optimal performance out of the equipment.


Totally agreed on this! That's why I said "If you are in a situation with confused and stubborn sound man, you gotta do what you gotta do..." in my first reply to this post. I always try to point this out when I try to explain the function of the OUT1 knob. I'm simply advocating that in an ideal world, you should have no issues with the OUT1 knob set to max and that this will give you maximum signal-to-noise in the downstream signal chain. If you have to turn it down, go for it.
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i see.

what would you call the Fader position on a typical mixer at the -0- line? genuinely asking.

has it been confirmed that the Out 1 knob is an attenuator?

you can see that AustinBuddy above just stated that his goal is -12 dB in a DAW. can you comment on how that factors in to all this Unity Gain talk?
 
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