Does Latency Kick in

MackieFX said:
Just chiming in here. Steve Vai says he doesnt use digital gear because he can "feel" even a couple ms more latency than a regular amp. I feel like the Axe does have that couple ms latency over a real amp and I can definitely feel it but its something I think you eventually get used to.
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Depends on how far away from the real amp you are used to standing. 1 foot = 1ms delay.

I find real amps in a practice room a bit laggy compared to the axefx into headphones ;)
 
MackieFX said:
Just chiming in here. Steve Vai says he doesnt use digital gear because he can "feel" even a couple ms more latency than a regular amp. I feel like the Axe does have that couple ms latency over a real amp and I can definitely feel it but its something I think you eventually get used to.
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It objectively and measurably doesn't. Unless you are used to playing with your faced pressed up against the grille.
 
Andrew Male said:
It objectively and measurably doesn't. Unless you are used to playing with your faced pressed up against the grille.
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Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

There most definitely IS a few milliseconds of latency. This is due to A/D and D/A conversions plus any introduced by processing. This is measurable.

Can someone detect this vs a real amp? Not likely... At least, not any more than moving a few feet father from the speaker.

I believe there was a post in the past documenting the minimum amount of latency detectable by the human brain... And it shouldn't be detectable.
 
MatthewSeed said:
Hi guys, thank you all for your input. I am trying to solve hooking up my axe Fx to my UAD. The axe has SPDIF out and the apollo only has optical in so I just need to get a convertor box so I can see if the A/D conversions are adding to my problems.
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You can run straight into the Ins on the Apollo if you’re suspecting there’s significant latency. Running SPIDF won’t change the equation much.
 
MatthewSeed said:
Hi guys, thank you all for your input. I am trying to solve hooking up my axe Fx to my UAD. The axe has SPDIF out and the apollo only has optical in so I just need to get a convertor box so I can see if the A/D conversions are adding to my problems.
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Dont waste your time and money, this isn’t the problem. What would it save, 2-3ms tops? Thats the difference of standing 2 or 3 more feet away from a speaker when playing.
 
unix-guy said:
Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

There most definitely IS a few milliseconds of latency. This is due to A/D and D/A conversions plus any introduced by processing. This is measurable.

Can someone detect this vs a real amp? Not likely... At least, not any more than moving a few feet father from the speaker.

I believe there was a post in the past documenting the minimum amount of latency detectable by the human brain... And it shouldn't be detectable.
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Oh the fun psychoacoustic projects I used to do back in my grad school days .....
 
unix-guy said:
Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

There most definitely IS a few milliseconds of latency. This is due to A/D and D/A conversions plus any introduced by processing. This is measurable.

Can someone detect this vs a real amp? Not likely... At least, not any more than moving a few feet father from the speaker.

I believe there was a post in the past documenting the minimum amount of latency detectable by the human brain... And it shouldn't be detectable.
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Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

It was pretty obvious what my point was. The total system latency of the axe is 1ms, not "a few milliseconds". Not detectable by humans. Sound travels 34cm in 1ms, so not a "few feet". Anyone that claims they can detect latency on the axe vs an amp is lying.
 
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Andrew Male said:
Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

It was pretty obvious what my point was. The total system latency of the axe is 1ms, not "a few milliseconds". Not detectable by humans. Sound travels 34cm in 1ms, so not a "few feet". Anyone that claims they can detect latency on the axe vs an amp is lying.
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Where did you find that information? I’m curious how this is achieved. I imagine an amp+cab with 1 in 1 out would run a bit faster than a complex preset. I personally have never detected any latency and I monitor from the daw through an Apollo interface. At a 64 sample buffer setting I cant detect anything worth mentioning.
 
Andrew Male said:
Not sure exactly what you're trying to say?

It was pretty obvious what my point was. The total system latency of the axe is 1ms, not "a few milliseconds". Not detectable by humans. Sound travels 34cm in 1ms, so not a "few feet". Anyone that claims they can detect latency on the axe vs an amp is lying.
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I didn't disagree about not hearing or feeling latency.

But you said this, which is what I wasn't sure what you were trying to say:

Andrew Male said:
It objectively and measurably doesn't.
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If that is referring to latency, then it does in fact have measurable latency, whether detectable or not to a human.

If it's not, then what was it about?
 
unix-guy said:
I didn't disagree about not hearing or feeling latency.

But you said this, which is what I wasn't sure what you were trying to say:


If that is referring to latency, then it does in fact have measurable latency, whether detectable or not to a human.

If it's not, then what was it about?
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I meant it objectively and measurably doesn't have noticeable latency. Sorry for the confusion.
 
IRs (cab sims) can also add latency. If you're using something 3rd party, worth at least trying a few factory cabs to make sure that isn't what you're hearing.
 
Yeah if they are not trimmed with no silence in front they can. The factory fullres IRs for example have between 6 and 10 ms of silence in front (normal for a distant room mic). The pitch block at 100% wet (whammy, virtual capo) and compressor look ahead also add latency to the preset too. Cab block IR alignment adjustments can add up to around 12 ms as well.
 
To feel the pure A/D D/A latency without any other influences play an analog amp and send the sound via fx loop connected to input and output through the axe-fx. You will notice that latency isn't much of an issue as long as the volume is identical to the pure amps volume. It's nothing to worry about.
Now play the axe-fx's presets as loud as you played the amp. If mids and highs are still stuck in the mud tweak them to get them more in your face.

To me there is difference between a meassured latency and a felt latency. The converter's latency isn't that bad.
Presets vary and need to get tweaked.
 
MackieFX said:
Just chiming in here. Steve Vai says he doesnt use digital gear because he can "feel" even a couple ms more latency than a regular amp. I feel like the Axe does have that couple ms latency over a real amp and I can definitely feel it but its something I think you eventually get used to.
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It's between 2 and 3ms; no different than the Helix or other modern digital gear. Most people can't feel it, though. What's interesting is that OP didn't feel any latency before, but he does with these bought presets.

OP; do you notice the latency with the original stock presets or just with the paid ones you recently bought?
 
Some more thoughts.
Give your presets a broad midrange boost, that's just how real amps sound like through a cab non mic'ed, more midhonky then what you'd think, and that also changes how the attack happens.
Another way to make the pick attack feel different, it can speed up your picking, because it makes picking easier: add a compressor before the amp, type dynamics, attack should be short around 1,5ms, release short 25ms (auto knob for attack/release off), threshold somewhere around -20 or so, depends on your signal, dynamics +1 or +2. Play with settings some to get the best impact.
 
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