Does anyone think the rotary should be in the cab block? Are there any rotary cab IR’s or IR’s that come close?

[Ant Music]

As the thread title states, Does anyone else think the rotary cab block should be imbedded into or a function of the cab block? It kinda makes sense to in my opinion. But I can also understand that for cpu conservation that might not be desirable if it were to make the cab block demand more from the cpu. If the cpu was higher to run the cab block because of the rotary functions being ported into it, but the rotary functions weren’t being used then there would be little benefit to it being there.

But I’m also wondering if anyone has made some IR’s of an actual Leslie cabinet? If so I’d love to get my hands on them.

Or, are there any factory IR’s that people favour to nail a real rotary tone?

 

[GlennO]

I use the effect version of GSI VB3, which has the best leslie cabinet sound I've heard IMHO. I suppose you could shoot an IR of that with the motion turned off.

 

[iaresee]

Just run it post-CAB.

 

[Adinfinitum]

I'd love an Yamaha RA-200 Rotary Cab - how else am I supposed to play Pink Floyd.

 

[Ant Music]

Just run it post-CAB.

It’s not really an option believe it or not. Because of the routing I run and using my output signal to send cab sims (output1 L) and no cab sims (output1 R) I actually have to run the cab block very last in my effects chain.

But would it really make any actual difference to the tone if either one was before the other? I was of the impression that it didn’t matter which one came first. The same tone shaping is applied regardless of the order.

 

[Ant Music]

I use the effect version of GSI VB3, which has the best leslie cabinet sound I've heard IMHO. I suppose you could shoot an IR of that with the motion turned off.

I had a quick look at it and it seems that’s a B3 Hammond organ VST. Do you run your guitar through that? I’m a bit confused.

 

[GlennO]

I had a quick look at it and it seems that’s a B3 Hammond organ VST. Do you run your guitar through that? I’m a bit confused.

It is two plugins. A B3 instrument and an effect that has only the Leslie from the instrument.

 

[NaturalScience]

Nope, how else would you get rotary if you play thru a poweramp and cab with the cab sims off?

 

[RevDrucifer]

I don’t think an IR lasts long enough to deliver the effect of a rotating speaker.

 

[ProfEmerald]

Seems like embedding it in the cab block would create some routing issues for some users. Also would likely increase the CPU usage, which is already pretty healthy for that block.

It would be cool to have some irs of a Leslie cab "static" that you could use in conjunction with the rotary block.

 

[iaresee]

But would it really make any actual difference to the tone if either one was before the other? I was of the impression that it didn’t matter which one came first. The same tone shaping is applied regardless of the order.

Some of the CAB and ROT parameters are not really LTI, so it would make a difference. Enough to be significant to you? Hard to say. Have to try it and decide for yourself.

You can also put it right before the CAB block. AMP --> ROT --> CAB -- that kind of thing. You have to make sure the CAB block is set to not just the L or R input so you maintain the stereo effect.

 

[Ant Music]

Oh

Some of the CAB and ROT parameters are not really LTI, so it would make a difference. Enough to be significant to you? Hard to say. Have to try it and decide for yourself.

You can also put it right before the CAB block. AMP --> ROT --> CAB -- that kind of thing. You have to make sure the CAB block is set to not just the L or R input so you maintain the stereo effect.

oh ok. I will give it a shot.

I understand what you mean about selecting the input on the cab block. I’m just wondering if the cab type needs to be set to stereo too? Or will a normal cab sims still output in stereo so long as they are fed a stereo source. In other words does a non stereo cab IR sum to mono?
The only reason I ask is because cpu is still an issue for me (Axe Fx 2).

 

[Ant Music]

Ye

Seems like embedding it in the cab block would create some routing issues for some users. Also would likely increase the CPU usage, which is already pretty healthy for that block.

It would be cool to have some irs of a Leslie cab "static" that you could use in conjunction with the rotary block.

Yeah I agree actually. I think it would be better to make the rotary block contain a handful of IRs that are best suited for rotary cabinets or even just some user slots or both even. Wouldn’t need a whole bunch of them.

If you wanted an authentic rotary sound you could switch off the normal cab block and engage the rotary block with its built in cab sim with scenes.

 

[GlennO]

Ye

Yeah I agree actually. I think it would be better to make the rotary block contain a handful of IRs that are best suited for rotary cabinets or even just some user slots or both even. Wouldn’t need a whole bunch of them.

If you wanted an authentic rotary sound you could switch off the normal cab block and engage the rotary block with its built in cab sim with scenes.

I think it's a good idea. Guitar cabinet IR's can sound good, but aren't ideal for an authentic leslie emulation, so if you could load in a proper leslie IR, that would go a long way toward achieving an authentic sound.

 

[sprint]

I'm still unclear as to whether or not the rotary block is designed to include cab similation or not.

I always thought the rotary effect includes the whole deal (leslie amp(drive), drum/horn, and cab). Clean, I feel it can sound great bare bones with no cab after or amp before/after (guitar > rotary > out).

When the rotary drive is up high though, is when I feel it benefits from having a cab block after it (though I still have to try 16.04 which improves rotary drive).

When I do put a cab after, I don't feel I ever have the right ir - not much out there for 3rd party leslie irs - was thinking of maybe tone matching a barely moving leslie tone to extract the approximate eq curve to put in a peq after the rotary block.

 

[Ant Music]

I'm still unclear as to whether or not the rotary block is designed to include cab similation or not.

I always thought the rotary effect includes the whole deal (leslie amp(drive), drum/horn, and cab). Clean, I feel it can sound great bare bones with no cab after or amp before/after (guitar > rotary > out).

When the rotary drive is up high though, is when I feel it benefits from having a cab block after it (though I still have to try 16.04 which improves rotary drive).

When I do put a cab after, I don't feel I ever have the right ir - not much out there for 3rd party leslie irs - was thinking of maybe tone matching a barely moving leslie tone to extract the approximate eq curve to put in a peq after the rotary block.

Yeah I'm surprised that there haven't been any Leslie IRs floating around. Surely someone somewhere can help to shoot some and share them with the community.

 

[Ant Music]

I use the effect version of GSI VB3, which has the best leslie cabinet sound I've heard IMHO. I suppose you could shoot an IR of that with the motion turned off.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to be honest. I've never captured an IR before. Never needed to. I just use a couple of factory cabs and leave it there.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Yeah I'm surprised that there haven't been any Leslie IRs floating around. Surely someone somewhere can help to shoot some and share them with the community.

From what I can tell it’s impractical to create an IR of a spinning Leslie speaker.

Starting with https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Impulse_responses_(IR)#IR_length and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker …

The drum and rotor spin at different speeds whether they’re running fast or slow, so an IR would have to capture up to the point where both speakers crossed their original starting points at the same time otherwise the resulting IR would have a weird artifact. So there’s probably two different versions of the IR…

But it gets even worse because an Impulse Response is a tiny burst of sound that is supposed to occur before echoes in the room can bounce back and be captured. With sound traveling at 1100 feet/second, it’s going to take a big room.

During that process all outside/extraneous sounds need to be ignored by the capturing microphones, because, remember, two spinning speakers need to be captured and they’re driven by two motors, pulleys and belts that can make noise.

And then there’s the differing speeds that other versions and different company’s versions rotate at, and their different cabinet types, and the different ways their amplifiers distort…

And then there’s the needed IRs used to accommodate standard rotations plus speeding up, slowing down, and braking….

I’m not going to do the math because it doesn’t mix well with the couple glasses of wine I had with dinner, but my preliminary checks put it firmly in the nuh-uh range.

 

[Smittefar]

I think you can make the IR with the speaker standing still. Then the modeling takes care of all the rotation related issues

 

[MisterE]

It’s not really an option believe it or not. Because of the routing I run and using my output signal to send cab sims (output1 L) and no cab sims (output1 R) I actually have to run the cab block very last in my effects chain.

If you have enough CPU left, you can use two Rotary blocks one for the Left channel and one for the Right channel and set both parameters the same.