Does anyone know why the Axe2 doesn't have midi toggle CCs?

If I read the thread correctly (always a gamble!), the main issue is that the MFC-101 has no idea what state the Axe-FXII effect is in. If it did, stepping on a - say Chorus - IA would send the OPPOSITE state for the Chorus's current state. If ON, the controller value = 0-63 to turn it off. If off, send 64-127 to turn it on. It seems odd to me that this is not possible, as the LED's seem to know what state the effect is in, right?
 
JazzMac251 said:
One of the more annoying aspects of using a midi controller is getting your IA switches to behave intuitively like actual switches. The standard way IA switches work is for the first press to send a CC "on" message and the second press to send a CC "off" message. The problem is with this approach is that when you want to send an "off" command to a block that is currently "on", you have to send a useless "on" command first, meaning you have to stomp on the switch twice. This has always bugged me.

Fortunately, manufacturers have started addressing this issue by adding "toggle" commands to their midi code in addition to the standard on/off commands. This is really handy because the "toggle" message just tells the unit to flip the current state of the block regardless of whether it's "on" or "off". This not only makes using IA switches more intuitive, but it also frees up that second press for other potential programming uses.

My question is this: is there any particular reason the Axe/Axe2 doesn't have any toggle commands at all?
Click to expand...

Odd...I have been using a FCB1010 and I do not have any issues bypassing a block despite its on or off state. you simply program the midi controller to have effect x "on" and effext y "off" when you select the preset. If you want to turn effect x off then you tap a button with its bypass # and it will turn it off. Seems simple and like this has worked since the standard. Not sure what your issue is other than user error. Need to turn multiple effects on and off with one button push? use scenes. If you use a expression pedal to toggle and effect on or off that is also possible with the correct settings. Basically, I have no issues (when I dont screw it up) and I am not sure why you are having said issues. Can you explain in more detail?
 
plyall said:
If I read the thread correctly (always a gamble!), the main issue is that the MFC-101 has no idea what state the Axe-FXII effect is in. If it did, stepping on a - say Chorus - IA would send the OPPOSITE state for the Chorus's current state. If ON, the controller value = 0-63 to turn it off. If off, send 64-127 to turn it on. It seems odd to me that this is not possible, as the LED's seem to know what state the effect is in, right?
Click to expand...

Hi, I know what you mean!! I think this is for non MFC controllers, as the axe / MFC sync block states when the preset is selected. There's no point to toggle (that I can see) as if you want the other state, one press will get you there.


OP: It seems to me it's a modulus thing, add 64 to the current value. Wouldn't that achieve what you want?
 
randolfo said:
OP: It seems to me it's a modulus thing, add 64 to the current value. Wouldn't that achieve what you want?
Click to expand...

The point of a toggle command is that you don't have to know the current value. Your controller sends a command that tells the receiving device to flip the value that it has. The controller doesn't need to maintain the value.
 
sean.e said:
The point of a toggle command is that you don't have to know the current value. Your controller sends a command that tells the receiving device to flip the value that it has. The controller doesn't need to maintain the value.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a modulus setting do that? Add 64 to current and wrap at 127. What am I missing?
 
randolfo said:
Wouldn't a modulus setting do that? Add 64 to current and wrap at 127. What am I missing?
Click to expand...
That assumes the controller knows what the current value is. The toggle fuction is to help those controllers that have no way to tell what the current value is.
 
AFAIK, pretty much all units react the same as the AFX - but its the controller you sinc up. The MFC hooks up to the AFX2, and gets the patch state from it - so if a patch is saved independently on the AFxc the MFC will read it and display/act correctly.

With other pedals, you have to program the pedal My old All Access had to be done like this. You program the controller with the sate you want the patch to be in when selected - not the AFX. If you saved a patch with a block in a different on/off state but didnt re-program the All Access - when you selected the patch the old on/off state would selected. It was a PITA but worked - and it has been the same with every midi device Ive owned. It doesnt mean some dont have the toggle functionality - but Ive never seen one personally (and Ive had lots of Midi devices). Not saying it wouldnt be useful - but its definitely unusual

Tradition dictated the controller sends the initial on/off states of each IA - so you dont need double messages sending as the controller sends an initial state, either on or off for each programmed IA when a patch is selected.
 
randolfo said:
Hi, I know what you mean!! I think this is for non MFC controllers, as the axe / MFC sync block states when the preset is selected. There's no point to toggle (that I can see) as if you want the other state, one press will get you there.
Click to expand...

It would be an extremely useful feature for external switches connected to the MFC.

How it is now:
- ext. latching switches can either lead to LED syncing issues, or to undesirable "global" operating (on/off is carried over between presets, even if not needed).
- ext. momentary switches work fine, but when set to typTOG, they can get out of sync with the Axe after switching presets.
 
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It's a good function that would have to take place in the axe.
But I guess we might need three options for every effect.

An example:

Cc 100 chorus on
Cc 101 chorus off
Cc 102 chorus toggle (change state)

Sometimes (different scenes) you might want to send an absolute value.
For example chorus on.
 
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you don't actually need to toggle...
you just reverse the behaviour of the modifier...
then.. min [off] becomes on and max [on] becomes off
so there is no need to double tap the switch..

I do some real silly control stuff in the Axe, and I have never come across a situation whereby I need to double hit the switch..

I have the MFC, but my FC-300 is also config'd to control the Axe [as a reserve unit]
 
Thomas Larsson said:
It's a good function that would have to take place in the axe.
But I guess we might need three options for every effect.

An example:

Cc 100 chorus on
Cc 101 chorus off
Cc 102 chorus toggle (change state)

Sometimes (different scenes) you might want to send an absolute value.
For example chorus on.
Click to expand...


cant you


oooh, their's a new axe manual...
 
clarky said:
you don't actually need to toggle...
you just reverse the behaviour of the modifier...

I have the MFC, but my FC-300 is also config'd to control the Axe [as a reserve unit]
Click to expand...
Clarky, how do you do that on the FC-300? Don't you have to start with both the preset and the FC in the same state? Extra programming and all that? (I'm assuming the FC-300 can't read an IA state by itself—at least my FC-200 can't.)
 
yek said:
It would be an extremely useful feature for external switches connected to the MFC.

How it is now:
- Configuring ext.switches as latching can either lead to LED syncing issues, or to undesirable "global" operating (on/off is carried over between presets, even if not needed).
- Configuring ext.switches as momentary switch works fine, but not as toggle.
Click to expand...
I agree on the statement that it would be a useful feature for external switches, but a toggle will not solve that LED syncing thing, just make sure the switch works correct.

Let's say your last patch had the external "on", your LED on your external is lighting. When you now change presets/scenes, the state of the block in question changes back to "off", but the LED of the external is not updated (because there is no communication) and still shows "on".
In the status quo, you'd now have to hit the external twice in order to turn the effect on again (pressing it first will send the "off" message, second press will send "on"). The LED will adapt again after the second press, as the bypass state of the block is only tied to the state of the switch, not the state of the block.

Even with a toggle feature of the AXE, the LED feedback would still be broken:
Yes, you just need to press the button once to turn the effect back on in this situation, but now your LED will show exactly the opposite of the current state and there's no way to fix it even with a toggle command.
 
True, there would be no LED syncing.

Not a dealbreaker IMHO though. I don't have LEDs on my ext. switchbox (momentary switches).
 
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yek said:
True, there would be no LED syncing.

Not a dealbreaker IMHO though. I don't have LEDs on my ext. switchbox (momentary switches).
Click to expand...
If you use momentary switches in combination with the MFC, then you already have perfect toggle? This problem only exists with latching switches or without the MFC to read the externals.
 
Let me try to provide some clarity on this issue based on what I've learned form LF.

First, a toggle is useless in most controllers because the actual state would never be known. So the color or indicator on the controller would not mean anything.

Second, if a controller is programmed properly, this would never matter. For instance, all presets in the LF+ (and I would think the Fractal unit does also) have initial states. If you set the resend IA's parameter to "on", then the controller and the Axe would always be in sync anyway, so no need for toggle. This should apply to any controller. Make sure you have the initial states set up correctly.

Third, the LF added an external sync command added to V2.x of LF+. It basically is always in sync and thus eliminates the need for a "toggle" as the LF+ would always show the exact state that the Axe is currently in.

So above are 3 reasons why you don't need/want a toggle with any midi controller. However, LF is likely the most flexible if this is an issue for some odd reason.
 
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