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Do you use stock or user cabs more?

Do you use the stock cabs or user IR's more?


  • Total voters
    49
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Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
saxxamafone said:
maybe your amps have been setup for the other cab?
Definitely. However, I've played Marshall heads through Marshall cabs, and to my ears the G12-65 IR does it much better. To reset my amp block for the V30, I'd have to put a lot more bass through the amp block, which would tend to flub it out. Even on relatively saturated sounds, I go for a clean, well-defined lower register. Using a sim like the V30 would tend to move me away from that.

this first tone is with the V30 cab sim
http://www.mp3lizard.com/download.cfm?id=26802
That is so far removed from the sounds I make that it is difficult for me to comment. I do hear the amp sim overdriving lower frequencies more than I prefer, however.
 

saxxamafone

Inspired
yer it does have alot of lows in the patch

When I put that patch through my poweramp / cab, I had to remove a lot of low frequencies
 

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
Here's a real eye-opener. I just discovered this morning that not only does the 4x12 V30 have some strange characteristics, it did not come from an actual cab. The originator "fabricated" it by ear, using a clip ostensibly made through the cab as a sonic reference. See http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewto ... 731#p30731 . In the fifth message from the top, the moderator explains this.

I knew there was something weird about that IR.
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
Jay Mitchell said:
Here's a real eye-opener. I just discovered this morning that not only does the 4x12 V30 have some strange characteristics, it did not come from an actual cab. The originator "fabricated" it by ear, using a clip ostensibly made through the cab as a sonic reference. See http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewto ... 731#p30731 . In the fifth message from the top, the moderator explains this.

I knew there was something weird about that IR.
Ouch, I don't use any of those cabs but a lot of people do. I guess they are still freely available there.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I wasn't going to say anything but it's getting out of hand.

The question that no one has asked is why is he looking at the impulse responses in the Axe-Fx? How is he getting the data? If he is reverse engineering the firmware he is in direct violation of the DMCA.

He apparently is somehow involved with Overloud which makes his motives and intents all the more dubious.

I'm going to honor his request but he's on very shaky ground legally and morally. Especially in light of the new evidence that these aren't even real impulses.

If anyone has some good V30 or oversize Recto IR's they want to send me I'll give them a listen.
 

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
Is it possible that he just did an IR sweep of the cabs from his Axe-fx? Does he even have an Axe-fx? If he is reverse engineering the firmware then it's total an utter hypocrisy what he is doing/saying... just let us know how we can "assist" Cliff...
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Well, that's a new perspective I didn't consider.

He's a moderator there to boot; puts that forum and his intentions into a stark contrast and explains his actions completely. This is getting very muddy and dirty now. I'd have a lawyer looking at this VERY closely because precedents are in need of being set and if he is hacking the firmware... that puts his actions into a very dark light.

Wow.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
This was bound to happen, and the courts will only protect those who vigorously defend their intellectual property.

Time to call in the legal eagles.

I would print out and preserve that entire thread over there just to be safe personally.

I am posting once more over there and then I'm out of this situation. Yikes.
 

Jay Mitchell

Fractal Fanatic
Re: intellectual property, I just had a conversation with the principal of a company with which I do business. He and his partner have been using IRs in DSP platforms since the 1970s. If IP issues had been raised over the rights to impulse responses, they would have encountered them. As one anecdotal example, they had an IR-based reverb preset in one of their devices that was labeled "Concertgebouw." Whether the owners of concert halls have IP rights to IRs taken from their venues remains an open question. ASA is being careful to avoid running afoul of this gray area. There is a concert hall research group who collect and share IRs among themselves, with the strict condition that their use is research-based only.

According to my friend, so far, the issue has not been tested in court. It is clear that the originator of the IR has no legal precedent for claiming that what is, in effect, a collection of taps for an FIR filter is his intellectual property. The outcome of any legal proceedings would be completely up in the air.

Obviously computer code is another matter. That is clearly protected by copyright laws. Whether someone legally can be prevented from reverse engineering a product in order to produce a similar result is, I believe, highly doubtful.
 

VegaBaby

Fractal Fanatic
Jay Mitchell said:
Here's a real eye-opener. I just discovered this morning that not only does the 4x12 V30 have some strange characteristics, it did not come from an actual cab. The originator "fabricated" it by ear, using a clip ostensibly made through the cab as a sonic reference. See http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewto ... 731#p30731 . In the fifth message from the top, the moderator explains this.

I knew there was something weird about that IR.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like he 'stole' them from somewhere on the net as well and just changed them a little and now he goes out and accuses Cliff of stealing ?

If his version of the IR sounds different to Cliff's, eventhough they are claimed to be identical, maybe Cliff changed something as well, which would make it the same what that guy did, right ?
 

goodwill559

Inspired
FractalAudio said:
(...snip...) The question that no one has asked is why is he looking at the impulse responses in the Axe-Fx? How is he getting the data? If he is reverse engineering the firmware he is in direct violation of the DMCA. (...snip...)
I did wonder this question, but since the science of IR's is currently over my head, I had no idea the effort involved.

:?: So would it take a determined, purposeful and focused goal of deconstructing the Axe-Fx for the author to have arrived at his conclusion rather than a serendipitous discovery arising out of intellectual curiosity? :?:

For example, Jay and I both posted .syx files of the Framus 4x12. Then a couple of users d/l, loaded and listened to each. There were differences in the sounds they produced even though we used the same source .wav file.

As a result, I looked at the plots of both using AlbertAxe's IR converter utility out of curiosity to see the differences. Of course, I had the files to compare because I made one, and Jay provided the other. How one obtains a factory loaded IR from the Axe-Fx is unknown to me.

Thus, it may in fact be as Cliff states a violation of the DMCA.

I don't know how or why the author, user name Alu, came to be doing the same comparison with one of the hundreds of his own IR's to one of the Axe-Fx IR's.

Suspicious, perhaps, and I'm not throwing out accusations, just my own analysis of one wrinkle of the situation leaves me with questions.
 

goodwill559

Inspired
VegaBaby said:
Jay Mitchell said:
Here's a real eye-opener. I just discovered this morning that not only does the 4x12 V30 have some strange characteristics, it did not come from an actual cab. The originator "fabricated" it by ear, using a clip ostensibly made through the cab as a sonic reference. See http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/viewto ... 731#p30731 . In the fifth message from the top, the moderator explains this.

I knew there was something weird about that IR.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like he 'stole' them from somewhere on the net as well and just changed them a little and now he goes out and accuses Cliff of stealing ?

If his version of the IR sounds different to Cliff's, eventhough they are claimed to be identical, maybe Cliff changed something as well, which would make it the same what that guy did, right ?
I just finished reading the new posts in Alu's thread, and I came to a similar conclusion.

He says, "my IRs are called "Sperimental" because they're not measured after real gears, but "extracted" from audio clips. I've already explained this before, since I don't own any cab/mic. Basically I've found good sounding clips on the net and tried to "create" (if I can use this term) an IR that could give me a similar sound."

So there are elements of original work based on previously created and distributed work.

The subject of IP really getting even more roiled now.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
It seems he's tweaked at me for asking about it. Which is fine. He then passive/aggressively goes after me for some 'axe-FX is holier than thou' claim that I've never made to him or anyone on that board. So based on the vehement reaction to my post asking what's up... something sure smells to me too.

He claims what he claims to and it's in now in print by him. Let the lawyers now work it out if it comes to it.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks...
 

Agreed

New here
Based on inaccurate information (that he works for Overloud? who in the world ever said that?) he was accused of violating the U.S. DMCA (which wouldn't even apply to him as an Italian) by reverse engineering the AxeFX firmware (which he didn't have to do in order to capture the content of the IRs in question), which you said would have significant legal consequences. He replied with an appropriately serious explanation and so now, lacking substance, you switch to innuendo.

Am I missing any steps here?
 

javajunkie

Moderator
Moderator
There could be a variety of reasons good and bad why he checked.

He could have been informed by one of the users here that the axe-fx has a Framus cab too and wanted to take a look how his compared. After all there are not very many Framus IRs out there.

He could have been informed by one of Fractals competitors.

None of us have any way of knowing.

We do know he doesn't want them in there. Fair enough, Cliff said he will take them out. I don't see what good will come out of making this into a feud.

Accusations and assumptions about both parties motives is really just futile. The best one can do is try keep his/her side of the street clean.
 
...so the Framus IR is a "Sperimental?" :lol:

...that's funny...it's a snapshot of a snapshot?

...since 6.0 firmware, I've only used Jay's far-field IR's (Thanks!)...no mics either...
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Agreed said:
Based on inaccurate information (that he works for Overloud? who in the world ever said that?) he was accused of violating the U.S. DMCA (which wouldn't even apply to him as an Italian) by reverse engineering the AxeFX firmware (which he didn't have to do in order to capture the content of the IRs in question), which you said would have significant legal consequences. He replied with an appropriately serious explanation and so now, lacking substance, you switch to innuendo.

Am I missing any steps here?
Interesting... same answer here as I gave you there.

It's obviously between Cliff and Alu.

I asked hard questions and gave the context to understand the gravity of those questions. No innuendo, no beating around the bush, no sugar coating on it. That's down to the brass tacks straight talk. That's how I talk things on the Net, just like real life. I'm not out to win points or impress my homies. I don't spread rumors, I go to the source and ask the questions. Got the answer and am fine with it. My opinion of it is just that, an opinion. It's not a statement of fact.

The only steps you seem to be missing are where I've spread any innuendo.

His "appropriately serious explanation" was bold faced print "EPIC FAIL" and to call me dumb. That's drama, and I called it just that. Hamlet and the doth protest line is... drama. Look it up if you don't believe me.
 

VegaBaby

Fractal Fanatic
Are there any other IRs in the Axe that came from that source ? Noone's probably gonna tell now since they are afraid of loosing them :( ...

To get back to topic...

All internal stock IRs here. 4x12 Brit, 4x12 20 and 4x12 Recto most of the time.
 

Agreed

New here
He mentioned two others that are also drawn from users of G.A.M., I believe one was a Mesa IR of his as well.

He has no problem with any AxeFX user uploading them on their own to the AxeFX, he just doesn't want them incorporated into the firmware. I think it is really that he's offended that the whole thing happened, maybe when this topic cools and all "wounds" heal some arrangement could be made. I don't know. He has allowed his IRs to be used before, once in a free cab sim plugin by the amazing Aradaz, and once in TH1 from Overloud (who sought his permission explicitly beforehand, which I think is the key issue here - Cliff couldn't have known to seek permission to use them because he didn't know they were Alu's, but that is Alu's objection, Cliff should know where his IRs are coming from if he's going to make them part of the product). I don't think Cliff meant any harm, and I said that over there too, although this latest track is a little bit silly in my opinion, especially suggesting that he's reversed the firmware in violation of the DMCA for a competitor. That's over the top and there isn't any evidence of it at all.
 
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