Do you guys use scenes or patches to change "channels"?

firmani99

Inspired
For instance if you wanted to select between a clean tone and a high gain tone do you have them on separate patches or the same patch with different scenes? Do the patches change quickly enough for that any way?
 
Both... depends on the scenario. Most of the time I use scenes with multiple amps and even some X/Y... there is no gap typically. I even have some patches with 2 amps running and use an expression pedal to "morph" between them.
 
I use scenes just because it is easier to set up.
That being said, different people have different tolerance for dropout. In a band context I really haven't ever been able to notice dropout because I am too distracted with playing. But some people just can't stand even 15ms dropout.
 
I am a cover band player, and I use scenes. There is just no reason not to. With 8 scenes per preset available, you can do anything, with pretty much ultimate power. For me it's not really about dropout or spillover (although... this is a big upside for scenes) but about foot switch management and consistency on how a set works for me.

Consider some of what scenes can do:
1. Up to two amps, two cabs, both with X/Y switching. That's 4 different amps, 4 different cabs you can use in one preset.

2. With scene controllers, you can change things like preamp drive independently for each scene, turning a cleanish or breakup amp into a more driven solo channel. This is like having endless combinations when combined with X/Y. (If you're not familiar with this super powerful feature, learn about it. It's a game changer.)

It makes total sense to me to have one preset per song, and then "scenes" within that song. Some songs use one sound (anything AC/DC comes to mind.) Some have a variety of sound changes. With presets, some songs would need one, and some would need 4 different presets. That makes bank management a nightmare. How do you even label your bottom row for that? I couldn't keep it straight in my head or on my pedal board.

My board is set up with a bank size of zero, and my bottom row is setup to always be scene selection (5 scenes). My scenes are sort of set by song section, but with my own language and twist that works for me. It goes like this: 1. Intro 2. Main 3. Lead 4. Solo 5. Special.

It's kind of a weird setup, I know. I tried doing Intro, verse, chorus, bridge, solo, but I didn't like it. Many songs I do have only one or two sounds. Only a couple make use of the "Special", and frankly I don't really need it, so it's a rare button for me to use. On one sound presets, I can hit any bottom row button, and they are all the same, except scene 4 always has a little volume boost on it for solos.

I personally use the output mixer volume for this. (Many guys use a vol block or a filter. I don't because blocks take CPU, and grid space.) The mixer out can be adjusted with my MFC extension (Vol up Vol down) so if I need to make on the fly adjustments to a solo patch I can. (I do this at practice. Live, that's the FOH guys job). Also, the output mixer is independent for each scene, so you can set different volumes for different scenes. It is very handy for a 4db solo boost, or any other adjustment you need for song parts.
 
I am a cover band player, and I use scenes. There is just no reason not to. With 8 scenes per preset available, you can do anything, with pretty much ultimate power. For me it's not really about dropout or spillover (although... this is a big upside for scenes) but about foot switch management and consistency on how a set works for me.

Consider some of what scenes can do:
1. Up to two amps, two cabs, both with X/Y switching. That's 4 different amps, 4 different cabs you can use in one preset.

2. With scene controllers, you can change things like preamp drive independently for each scene, turning a cleanish or breakup amp into a more driven solo channel. This is like having endless combinations when combined with X/Y. (If you're not familiar with this super powerful feature, learn about it. It's a game changer.)

It makes total sense to me to have one preset per song, and then "scenes" within that song. Some songs use one sound (anything AC/DC comes to mind.) Some have a variety of sound changes. With presets, some songs would need one, and some would need 4 different presets. That makes bank management a nightmare. How do you even label your bottom row for that? I couldn't keep it straight in my head or on my pedal board.

My board is set up with a bank size of zero, and my bottom row is setup to always be scene selection (5 scenes). My scenes are sort of set by song section, but with my own language and twist that works for me. It goes like this: 1. Intro 2. Main 3. Lead 4. Solo 5. Special.

It's kind of a weird setup, I know. I tried doing Intro, verse, chorus, bridge, solo, but I didn't like it. Many songs I do have only one or two sounds. Only a couple make use of the "Special", and frankly I don't really need it, so it's a rare button for me to use. On one sound presets, I can hit any bottom row button, and they are all the same, except scene 4 always has a little volume boost on it for solos.

I personally use the output mixer volume for this. (Many guys use a vol block or a filter. I don't because blocks take CPU, and grid space.) The mixer out can be adjusted with my MFC extension (Vol up Vol down) so if I need to make on the fly adjustments to a solo patch I can. (I do this at practice. Live, that's the FOH guys job). Also, the output mixer is independent for each scene, so you can set different volumes for different scenes. It is very handy for a 4db solo boost, or any other adjustment you need for song parts.
Great response! I guess I am doing the right thing by relying on scenes.
 
I use scenes. I set stuff up such that I can play an entire song with one preset. And then I use up to 5 scenes to move through sounds in the preset. Honestly, I do most nights using a single preset. I have 5 IAs dedicated to scene changes and then the rest of the IAs for my most-toggled effects. I'll usually reserve scene 5 for "special" sounds, where I got to Y-sides of effects blocks that are setup for extreme sounding things.

I wrote about how I changed up my use of scenes here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/a-change-of-scene-ry.102737 -- that goes in to detail about how I think about scenes when I'm gigging. I'll modify them on the fly to store temporary state that's specific to a song.
 
I use presets.

But I'm not playing in a typical cover band. I normally have 4-5 presets max. Right now its: Tweed clean, Soldano gain, 80's Clean, Violin

Within each preset I have footswitches to activate drive, modulation, special efx, post amp volume boost, mute.

Special efx are mostly multidelay for space / jam stuff.
 
I'm very early into this product (AXEFX II XL+ w/ MFC) just having it for about 2 months ... but SCENEs seem to be a great method that doesn't create latency or destroy spillover. I do appreciate all the comments in here - helps validate some of my thinking.

To Pinkycramps, thanks for explaining your "1. Intro 2. Main 3. Lead 4. Solo 5. Special." approach. Makes a ton of sense to me. :)
 
I really like using scenes because of the "memory" of fx on and off status. If I know that I need a special effect on the solo for the song I can click to my lead scene before the song starts and engage that effect. Then I go back to my clean or rhythm sound and when I click back to the lead it's still there.
 
I'm in a cover band and put a lot of effort to nail the correct sound for each song, I use both presets and scenes, depends how loaded the preset is (CPU).

Basically my bank is set to 5 so the bottom row is 5 preset a bank wile going from ultra-clean to ultra-mean (left to right, have a look at my sig').
Now, some have scenes and some not, those presets with scenes are simply going from the specific sound and "up" meaning if I hit a crunch preset than scene #2 will be heavier crunch. If I hit a fat/ edge of break preset than scene #2 will be crunch and 3 will be heavy distortion etc. but mostly scene 2@ is towards fuller / lead kind of sound.
If the preset can be loaded with more amp/cab and FX than I will use more scenes up to 5.
I use the EXT4MFC for Scene up/down and Volume up/down like Pinkycramps.

Really, there isn’t a rule, it's a matter of trying and find the best for your needs.
 
I just finished setting mine up today ( first pass, at least for now). After reading a lot on this site and the manuals, I decided that the scene approach was the right first step for me. I developed five presets (mostly based on modified factory presets) that covered the range of cover tunes in the band (Beatles to Blues to Queen), as follows 1: clean (CE1 chorus), 2: Texas blues (vibro verb), 3: 80s-ish Rock (citrus), 4: hot blues (cork sniffers), 5: high gain lead (diesel VH4). Then I set up a volume, wah and filter block, (the latter used as a 4db volume boost fo leads, which i always put in preset scene 5). The other scenes have useful variations of the scene 1 sound, generally increasing in intensity. Then I balanced the preset levels. This really simple layout got me up and running fast, and I can step into a band practice with confidence. I know it's just the tip of the iceberg, but now I have time to work with it live and come up with more modifications.

Anyway, scenes were a fast and painless entry for me.
Cheers,
Steve
 
Scenes. Best invention evah. Seamless (REMEMBER TO PAUSE AXE-EDIT WHEN PLAYING...) and so many possibilities.

Most of my patches are simple (only 5 scenes...I like to use the real estate on my MFC for FX toggle):
1. Main Sound - Only Reverb
2. Main with Drive or boost - Reverb
3. Main with Drive/Verb/Delay
4. Main with Delay
5. Special (song specific.)

I still have many other things IN the patch such as Compression, Tremolo, Phaser, whatever, but I find if I start with a baseline, I toggle those other things on when they're needed. The baseline tells me exactly where I am at all times no matter what the patch does. It saves 'now which scene was that effect engaged in' confusion on stage.

There are exceptions. Very song specific patches have X/Y states that go clean to mean and whatever FX I need already engaged.

My suggestion is to pick ONE way to do things, and set up all your patches that way at first; you'll figure out soon if it works for you.
 
Scenes for me, MFC running song mode, preset per song, 5 scenes Pete preset, works for everything I play in my covers band. Plenty of X/Y going on and it's seem less. I love it and it was one of the main reasons for purchasing tube amp with only three channels no cost ant tap dancing was getting to be a real pain.
 
I have done both, and tend to use presets more than scenes, principally because I got used to songs/banks on the MFC before scenes were introduced, and I find it cumbersome to switch the MFC into and out of scene mode to change scenes. On more than one occasion I have bungled a preset change when I was in scene mode by not switching out of reveal mode. I probably do 70% of my playing with 5-7 presets, but then have special preset banks for certain songs where the standard presets won't cut it.

I suspect there's a more elegant answer to this and I am certainly open to rethinking.
 
I would use scenes to switch sounds inside a song, and maybe a general preset that covers a lot of songs, or specific presets one for each song.
There's some sound gap when switching between presets, but not when switching scene, except for the amp switching from X to Y (or inversely). Some can go with that sound gap, others don't ( i don't ). Most of the songs i play needs to be fast switching between clean and crunch so i generally have two amps in my presets, one for the cleans and the other for the crunchy stuff, so both of them are ready to be used, just a different signal path per scene.
 
Scenes here. MFC in 'Set' mode. 'Reveal' mode always on. A preset for each song, I step through the songs/presets with the 'Bank Up' switch (preset names act as my set list).

Scene #1...Main Rhythm
Scene #2...Alternate Rhythm, if needed, (otherwise identical to scene #1)
Scene #3...Alternate Solo, if needed, (otherwise identical to scene #4)
Scene #4...Solo
Scene #5...Special, if needed, (otherwise identical to scene #4)
 
My last band I had so many crazy settings that I had to use patches. One of our guys moved to Chicago so we are in a regrouping phase and I'm going to simplify things if I can and try using scenes.
 
Scenes for me. One preset per song, usually up to 4 scenes per song. Bank size 0. Ordering of scenes is by first use in song so I always start with scene 1 and proceed left to right. I include only those fx called for in the song. I keep my axe-fx on an amp stand angled so the front panel faces up at me so I can select patches using the front panel even though I have an mfc101.

I also have more conventional presets that are set up like a pedal board and I typically don't use scenes in them but these presets are not for playing out with the band.
 
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