Do you build separate pre sets for live volume?

cragginshred

cragginshred

Fractal Fanatic
Up until recently I spend way too much time cranking my real tubes heads constantly 'tone checking'.
Since getting the FM9 I have returned to more bedroom volume practicing. When I turn the volume up to band level I notice the tones different

Very aware of the Fletcher Munson curve. Just curious if you guys (who play loud live) create separate pre sets or just tweak them as needed venue?
 
I create all of my presets for live playing and then make a temporary adjustment for lower volume if needed. If I did this a lot, I would have a separate version for each. There is definitely a difference in sound of any modeler at a gig volume. Not taking that into account is probably the single biggest mistake people make with a modeler that makes them not like them and blame them for all sorts of things.
 
Haven’t gigged with it yet but I’d like to think I’d tweak the global EQ, and perhaps some performance knobs.
 
I thought for sure I was going to have to do this when I dialed in the presets for my cover band. I’m going into a Duncan PS-170 powering a 2x12, so I’m not using any IR’s. Being in an apartment, I can’t crank it up to band-volume and brought my laptop to the first practice in case I had to make any changes. The only thing I tweaked was the delay mix on one scene, aside from that it was good to go and surprised the hell out of me.

It might be because I’m used to hearing that cab at lower volumes, I’ve had it for almost 20 years at this point, so I have a good idea of where I need to set things so when I crank it, it doesn’t sound like garbage. I have no clue how this would work out if I were using IR’s and going direct, though.
 
It’s hard to over-emphasize the need to adjust at gig volume. It’s not only the volume, but the way your frequencies interact with those of the other musicians. If it’s impossible to rehearse, try for a sound check. You might get lucky just winging it, but it’s more likely you’ll spend the first several songs looking at your screen instead of your audience.

As a general rule, I find a little less low end than sounds good at home is a good starting place. Add to that using less gain than you think you need, and you’re less likely to disappear in the mud you’re causing. Balance your presets, drives, boosts with a db meter, even a phone app version if you don’t have a dedicated meter. Do these three things and you’ll have a much easier time adjusting at the rehearsal/gig.
 
Rick said:
It’s hard to over-emphasize the need to adjust at gig volume. It’s not only the volume, but the way your frequencies interact with those of the other musicians. If it’s impossible to rehearse, try for a sound check. You might get lucky just winging it, but it’s more likely you’ll spend the first several songs looking at your screen instead of your audience.

As a general rule, I find a little less low end than sounds good at home is a good starting place. Add to that using less gain than you think you need, and you’re less likely to disappear in the mud you’re causing. Balance your presets, drives, boosts with a db meter, even a phone app version if you don’t have a dedicated meter. Do these three things and you’ll have a much easier time adjusting at the rehearsal/gig.
Click to expand...
Do you do this standing out front during sound ck? I mix with an iPad so i could do that. I am very guilty of hitting an A chord and adjusting from there, but how it sits in the mix is another story as we know.
 
I create my presets exclusively at loud volumes and through our PA. I want them to sound the way the audience will hear it. If I play lower volumes or with earphones, I just leave them as they are.
 
Rick said:
It’s hard to over-emphasize the need to adjust at gig volume. It’s not only the volume, but the way your frequencies interact with those of the other musicians. If it’s impossible to rehearse, try for a sound check. You might get lucky just winging it, but it’s more likely you’ll spend the first several songs looking at your screen instead of your audience.

As a general rule, I find a little less low end than sounds good at home is a good starting place. Add to that using less gain than you think you need, and you’re less likely to disappear in the mud you’re causing. Balance your presets, drives, boosts with a db meter, even a phone app version if you don’t have a dedicated meter. Do these three things and you’ll have a much easier time adjusting at the rehearsal/gig.
Click to expand...
All this and maybe have sufficient mid frequency which is what will keep your axe standing in a mix. Watch out with cleans on volume balancing. At equal dB value cleans will often tend to sound out too loud.
 
cragginshred said:
Do you do this standing out front during sound ck? I mix with an iPad so i could do that. I am very guilty of hitting an A chord and adjusting from there, but how it sits in the mix is another story as we know.
Click to expand...
You can do that, depending on who is doing the mixing. If you have a sound man, let him work with it once you get the stage volume and mix happening. If you're doing the mixing from the bandstand, get the tone and volume right onstage then take the iPad into the house and do whatever level and EQ work you need there. Either way works... I've done both!
 
I create my live presets at "decent" bedroom levels on 5" studio monitors, first running through a small Behringer analog mixer with EQ set flat. After I'm happy with the preset, I then set up my live backline rig which is an oversized 1 x 12 cab loaded with an Eminence Wheelhouse 150 powered by a Seymour Duncan PS170 with the EQs set flat. I turn the PS170 up to LIVE levels and adjust the preset to account for the Fletcher Munson curve. When playing live, I have my cab on an Auralex Gramma to decouple from the floor, but still have to EQ for the room. The 3-band EQ on the PS170 is all I typically need to adjust for the room. The cab on stage is there to have some backline fill, not to project to the house – that's done with our FOH speakers. Any EQ for FOH is done by our sound man on our Mackie digital board. When I'm playing at home (learning new music, jamming to tracks, etc.) and only playing through my studio monitors at bedroom levels, I use the same presets I use live but will EQ the small mixer to "readjust" for the Munson curve at lower volumes. This way I'm only creating one preset, but EQ them as needed for differing output levels at home or in live situations.
 
cragginshred said:
Up until recently I spend way too much time cranking my real tubes heads constantly 'tone checking'.
Since getting the FM9 I have returned to more bedroom volume practicing. When I turn the volume up to band level I notice the tones different

Very aware of the Fletcher Munson curve. Just curious if you guys (who play loud live) create separate pre sets or just tweak them as needed venue?
Click to expand...

All the ambient and low-end stuff that sounds good playing alone, doesn't sound so good in a band situation, unless it's maybe 3 piece and you need to fill up some space. It takes getting used to, but you probably need less distortion than you think you do also.
 
Rick said:
It’s hard to over-emphasize the need to adjust at gig volume. It’s not only the volume, but the way your frequencies interact with those of the other musicians. If it’s impossible to rehearse, try for a sound check. You might get lucky just winging it, but it’s more likely you’ll spend the first several songs looking at your screen instead of your audience.

As a general rule, I find a little less low end than sounds good at home is a good starting place. Add to that using less gain than you think you need, and you’re less likely to disappear in the mud you’re causing. Balance your presets, drives, boosts with a db meter, even a phone app version if you don’t have a dedicated meter. Do these three things and you’ll have a much easier time adjusting at the rehearsal/gig.
Click to expand...

macky7tyseven said:
I create my presets exclusively at loud volumes and through our PA. I want them to sound the way the audience will hear it. If I play lower volumes or with earphones, I just leave them as they are.
Click to expand...

These tips are the gold that people often miss. Get your tones as dialed in as possible at gig volumes. I dial mine in using one of the PA speakers. I have it in a room with the amp I have been gigging for a good while. I set the amp to the volume I normally use it at a gig. I then turn up the PA cabinet to just a little louder than the amp and start dialing it in from there to get it to sound like the amp does.

I also run sound for other bands. The things mentioned above are far more common than you may think. Too much low end and too much gain can really kill your tone in the mix. I have had to really crank the mid range up on some guitar players because they have scooped out the mids and you couldn't hear anything they were playing in the mix. They usually don't like to hear that they need to put that midrange back in their tone. Too much gain just sounds like mush in the mix. You can help make sure that your guitar sounds good by taking these things into your own hands and not leaving it to the guy behind the FOH mixer to fix it for you. The guy behind the board can only do so much depending on what you are sending him. You also have the variable that not all FOH engineers are not equal in knowledge.
 
Atomic CLR monitor at gig levels translates to the PA very well for me. Usually once and done. Slight PA eq and that’s it.
 
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