Do the AF3 amps have more gain than the real amp?

rmg471

Member
Hey all!

I love my AF3. It’s the best gear purchase I’ve ever made. It’s the brain of my studio.

I have an honest question that I haven’t seen answered anywhere: does “Amp X” in the AF3 have more gain than “Amp X” at the same settings in the real world?

Yes or no does not equate to good or bad. I’m just curious if this is something that others have noticed. Sometimes I think the models have more gain potential, be it preamp or power amp, than the same amp in real life.

Again, not a good or bad thing, just an honest question.

Thanks everyone!

Ryan
 
Range is the same, but due to variability in physical components in the real Amps, “5” on the axe might not be exactly the same as “5” on the your real amp
 
They're modelled to have the same range. But there are several confounding factors that might make the experience with them seem like there is more or less gain.

  1. As others have mentioned, real pots that are used to control the knobs on real amps have variability. Sometime at 5/Noon the value is actually only 40%, or as high as 60%. Usually these pots start and end around the same places (0 and 10 values), but the area in the middle can be higher or lower than it should be, or than it is on another amp, because of this variability. The AF3 idealizes this, so all knobs behave how a perfect knob would, but not have a real knob you compare it to might.
  2. Master volume differences: Power amp saturation can add additional distortion. Comparing your Axe FX to a JCM 800 at bedroom levels, you might think the model has a lot more gain. But if that model has the Master Volume at 5 and the real amp has the Master at 1... the model is adding a lot of gain you'd only see when you turned the real amp up loud.
  3. Also related to master volume, on real amp often the volume only increases for the first 1/3 of the knobs travel, then the rest is just increasing power amp saturation. This makes it a bit harder to finely adjust, so on the AF3 the master knobs are all changed to have a more linear travel. So 5 on the Axe FX might only be 3 on a real amp, which can also cause there to appear to be differences in tone at the same settings, when really it's just the same knob reading, but not the same value.
  4. Sometimes people actually dial way more gain into their Axe FX sounds when they're dialing them at bedroom levels, because it doesn't sound as saturated as a real amp. But actually, once it's up to the same volume as a real amp they behave similarly, and the bedroom dialed tone might have way too much gain because of it.
  5. Others might think the Axe has less gain than a real amp because at loud volumes your real amp will be vibrating the strings on your guitar, causing a feedback loop that makes all your playing a little louder. You can do the same with a loud Axe FX, but if you're recreating tones at low volumes or with headphones you won't get that. The Gain Enhancer in the output section of the AMP block helps simulate this.

So I'd say they're supposed to have the same gain as real amps they're based on, but there's a lot of extra factors which might make it feel like the models have more or less depending on the exact situation/settings.
 
The same.

Keep an eye on the master volume (for amps that have it). The default master volume settings for a lot of amp blocks would be quite loud in the room on their real world counterparts. Amps at that volume will tend to have more gain because the tubes are working harder.
 
They're modelled to have the same range. But there are several confounding factors that might make the experience with them seem like there is more or less gain.

  1. As others have mentioned, real pots that are used to control the knobs on real amps have variability. Sometime at 5/Noon the value is actually only 40%, or as high as 60%. Usually these pots start and end around the same places (0 and 10 values), but the area in the middle can be higher or lower than it should be, or than it is on another amp, because of this variability. The AF3 idealizes this, so all knobs behave how a perfect knob would, but not have a real knob you compare it to might.
  2. Master volume differences: Power amp saturation can add additional distortion. Comparing your Axe FX to a JCM 800 at bedroom levels, you might think the model has a lot more gain. But if that model has the Master Volume at 5 and the real amp has the Master at 1... the model is adding a lot of gain you'd only see when you turned the real amp up loud.
  3. Also related to master volume, on real amp often the volume only increases for the first 1/3 of the knobs travel, then the rest is just increasing power amp saturation. This makes it a bit harder to finely adjust, so on the AF3 the master knobs are all changed to have a more linear travel. So 5 on the Axe FX might only be 3 on a real amp, which can also cause there to appear to be differences in tone at the same settings, when really it's just the same knob reading, but not the same value.
  4. Sometimes people actually dial way more gain into their Axe FX sounds when they're dialing them at bedroom levels, because it doesn't sound as saturated as a real amp. But actually, once it's up to the same volume as a real amp they behave similarly, and the bedroom dialed tone might have way too much gain because of it.
  5. Others might think the Axe has less gain than a real amp because at loud volumes your real amp will be vibrating the strings on your guitar, causing a feedback loop that makes all your playing a little louder. You can do the same with a loud Axe FX, but if you're recreating tones at low volumes or with headphones you won't get that. The Gain Enhancer in the output section of the AMP block helps simulate this.

So I'd say they're supposed to have the same gain as real amps they're based on, but there's a lot of extra factors which might make it feel like the models have more or less depending on the exact situation/settings.
I was unaware of #3 and that could definitely do it. Great tip!
 
When matching the JP2C to the real amp, I found the gain was a little off, and so was the mid knob. Nothing I couldn’t pepper in One way or the other, though. The model was a bit gainier but the sound was identical. The model actually sounded better, confirmed by a laypersons ears in an A/B comparison.
 
When matching the JP2C to the real amp, I found the gain was a little off, and so was the mid knob. Nothing I couldn’t pepper in One way or the other, though. The model was a bit gainier but the sound was identical. The model actually sounded better, confirmed by a laypersons ears in an A/B comparison.
You mean to YOUR amp, I expect there’s a fair bit of variability in all JP2C amps made due to valve types, wear, tolerances , etc. The fractal amps all have extra input gain and boost options so can be more gainier than the originals.
 
You mean to YOUR amp, I expect there’s a fair bit of variability in all JP2C amps made due to valve types, wear, tolerances , etc. The fractal amps all have extra input gain and boost options so can be more gainier than the originals.
Yes. Fair enough.
 
You mean to YOUR amp, I expect there’s a fair bit of variability in all JP2C amps made due to valve types, wear, tolerances , etc. The fractal amps all have extra input gain and boost options so can be more gainier than the originals.

When you say "The fractal amps all have extra input gain..." do you mean the stock amps, or you have to go in and actually turn up the boost option(s)?
 
he said “extra input gain options”. for example, the input trim control

Yes, that’s what I mean. It can be authentic to the original, or via the advanced Params in the amp block (boost, input trim, GEQ, running a full volume power amp, etc) mean that more extreme versions can be created if you are willing to experiment. Note some experiments may not sound that good, but some will be glorious!
 
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