Do Pro Users Record the Axe-Fx through a mic pre?

When recording an album what output do you use?

  • Balanced outpus into the DAWs interface

    Votes: 27 24.5%
  • Balanced outputs into a mic pre...

    Votes: 13 11.8%
  • S/PDIF output

    Votes: 24 21.8%
  • USB output

    Votes: 45 40.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    110
Hi Danny,
Yeah I know my statement is brash and outrageous. I also am aware that 57s are still commonly used but I use outrageousness and shock because that persona is embedded in my name and we need to ween more people off thinking 57s are the be all and end all of guitar tone. I earlier stated that opinions are like assholes... everyone has got one and really I would further add that everyone can be an asshole & sometimes even for the betterment of mankind to push through stale traditions that are holding back progress!

Gotta love your honesty! LOL! I totally get what you're saying and did from the start. I think you're opinion is valid and I respect it. I just thought that "rubbish" might have been a bit too much even though you and anyone else is allowed to say that. That mic is not the be all end all of mic's....I'm with you. But for some dumb reason, it seems to capture well with driven guitar tones to where not much needs to be done and you end up with a killer tone IF you go about it the right way.

ASG said:
I was an asshole. However I am not solely defined by my outrageous behaviour or statements or opinions.

I have to disagree with you there. "Asshole" is a little too brash and outrageous. ;) I have no problems accepting opinions. If anything, you and I talked a little shop here. You showed what you liked and didn't like, I'm doing the same and here we are. Tech talk rules! :)

I can tell you're an intense person....I share that with you. I get so intense people don't like me, think I'm a know-it-all (or at least they think *I* think that...which is the furthest from the truth) and I wind up making enemies when I share some of the knowledge that I have. It's happening here the little I've been here. Though the majority have been incredible to me and I've made so many new forum friends here, there are a few that need to check themselves that believe they are higher and mightier than they think they are.

And for the record, I didn't define you nor did I mean to upset you with my comments to you. I just felt that after being in this business for over 38 years, I've used some of the shittiest mic's of all time to deliver the goods. Sometimes you just gotta use what works in a situation. The 57, has been a work-horse and has helped me more times than it's hurt me. I've even used some Radio Shack mic's in situations where quality and fidelity, actually hurt the vision we were shooting for.

ASG said:
I would much rather use some quality EQ for more cut off a Royer tone than add a 57 to a mix/ A 57 has cut but to me is simply a rough cheap tone. But yeah great for the money. Best bang for your buck ever and super robust!

What mics Eddie used to record for sure we may never know those guys were off their faces and partying so much I wouldn't trust what they say in interviews. I have no doubt that some engineer or assistance was around who threw another mic or two on his amps and/or what post production was done on his amp tone. Still yes 57s are great for the money.

Cheers
ASG

I'm with you there, but the same could be said on my end with the eq thing, right? :) With the Royer, we may have to curb the mids and low-mids and possibly add a little more presence at about 4-6k. Or will we? We don't know until we mix it and hear the other instruments. The 57 may need a slight low pass or a thicker low-mid. Or will it? We don't know that either until we mix it. :)

You're right on the Eddie thing....but as far as we do know from what has been shared....until someone comes forward to say for sure something else was used....well, you know the answer there. Nice chatting with you....respect to you. :)
 
So Long ago you can be certain no modeller was anywhere near it!
1987
But the principals would still work the same .... if you enhanced your tone before you enter the Axe....
The tone on that album was insane as was his playing!
The bottomline line truth is a modeller is a convenient fantastic package ... the ultimate pro recording scenario rarely involves modellers. You can never beat real tubes....
Must be why Satch recorded his last album with the Axe Fx! lol
 
Danny - seems silly that people think that of you. For the record for everyone else reading this, you're the guy that introduced me to the Axe (HUGE thanks for that!) and you worked on a project of mine - going out of your way to send me a video on how you would fix my kick drum by mixing it in Sonar (which I use) and recording it as you did it and talking me through it.

You're a generous guy and a class act.

I just needed to say that. :)
 
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I find USB to be reliable and easy for direct interface to my DAW, and in most studio settings. I have, on occasion, used the XLR outputs of the AxeFX into specialized studio mic preamps, but the difference in quality doesn't often warrant it. The direct USB feed of the AxeFX II is a 24 bit implementation, so there is plenty of headroom for the signal; if I later wish to sweeten the tracks with a different preamp, I can always do that in the DAW.
 
It sounds great the way I do it. I do NOT record at 48k. I record at 96k, so spdif is out for me I'm afraid to say.
What so you start with a 48k digital signal then convert to analog using the relatively cheap Axe DA converters then return to digital land using your own more expensive AD convertors and record @ 96k and you think that's better?
I believe you believe that and feel good about it. If it makes you and your clients inspired and play and tweak better then it is better!

BTW Prism is NOT better converters than the Metric Halo.

I know halo use very good convertors but they don't make a high end standalone convertor box do they?
Lot's of engineers with big budgets choose different convertors to MH even with an Halo in their arsenal.

I have to disagree with you there. "Asshole" is a little too brash and outrageous. ;) I have no problems accepting opinions. If anything, you and I talked a little shop here. You showed what you liked and didn't like, I'm doing the same and here we are. Tech talk rules! :)

Danny U R Soul!

Must be why Satch recorded his last album with the Axe Fx! lol

You do realise that Santriani gets given loads of Axe FX II XL+s for free as well as cash to help lubricate his lips?
The Axe is undoubtedly the best modeller but can we trust what he says in interviews and ads under these circumstances?
He could use one effect on one phrase and say "I recorded satch & satch an album with the Axe FX!"
The Axe reverbs and chorus are nice but if space, money and time (someone else setting up and pulling the basic sounds for me) there are plenty of reverb units I would pick for my big budget album than inside a multi effects unit and I would chose my TC 1210 for chorus & flanging.
Would the average punter tell the difference? Probably not consciously, but if they were AB'd on good DA , amp & monitor setup they might go I don't know why but this one feels nicer to me. I certainly could tell the difference.

The likelihood that many of our heroes might not record their uber albums with a multi effects and/or modeller shouldn't deter us from loving the Axe, using it and recording with it. For example as I understand it the lead vocal cuts on Gary Moore's Still got the Flu album were captured in the control room using a Shure Beta 58 (original Not Beta 58A ... there is a big difference 58A is the cheap to manufacture copy). Everything is built to price performance ratio) for the simple reason that his original performance on the guide vocal was more inspired and superior than later takes using large diaphragm studio condenser mics with more detail.

At the end of the day opinions are like noses everyone's got one. Some noses are more refined than others however.
When even when I travel I take Moccona coffee with me and put the milk in first. Many people laugh and say "you wouldn't be able to taste the difference" I say blindfold me and line 'em up I will smell the difference let alone taste the difference.

Now I sound like a wanker but let me say that there will always be someone better.
We are teachers the level below us, workers on the level we are on and students on the level above us.

Let's not get too technical however ... often I find

Less is MORE!
 
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Danny - seems silly that people think that of you. For the record for everyone else reading this, you're the guy that introduced me to the Axe (HUGE thanks for that!) and you worked on a project of mine - going out of your way to send me a video on how you would fix my kick drum by mixing it in Sonar (which I use) and recording it as you did it and talking me through it.

Your a generous guy and a class act.

I just needed to say that. :)

You Sir, are a star! Thanks for that. :)
 
What so you start with a 48k digital signal then convert to analog using the relatively cheap Axe DA converters then return to digital land using your own more expensive AD convertors and record @ 96k and you think that's better?
I believe you believe that and feel good about it. If it makes you and your clients inspired and play and tweak better then it is better!



I know halo use very good convertors but they don't make a high end standalone convertor box do they?
Lot's of engineers with big budgets choose different convertors to MH even with an Halo in their arsenal.



Danny U R Soul!



You do realise that Santriani gets given loads of Axe FX II XL+s for free as well as cash to help lubricate his lips?
The Axe is undoubtedly the best modeller but can we trust what he says in interviews and ads under these circumstances?
He could use one effect on one phrase and say "I recorded satch & satch an album with the Axe FX!"
The Axe reverbs and chorus are nice but if space, money and time (someone else setting up and pulling the basic sounds for me) there are plenty of reverb units I would pick for my big budget album than inside a multi effects unit and I would chose my TC 1210 for chorus & flanging.
Would the average punter tell the difference? Probably not consciously, but if they were AB'd on good DA , amp & monitor setup they might go I don't know why but this one feels nicer to me. I certainly could tell the difference.

The likelihood that many of our heroes might not record their uber albums with a multi effects and/or modeller shouldn't deter us from loving the Axe, using it and recording with it. For example as I understand it the lead vocal cuts on Gary Moore's Still got the Flu album were captured in the control room using a Shure Beta 58 (original Not Beta 58A ... there is a big difference 58A is the cheap to manufacture copy. Everything is built to price performance ratio) for the simple reason that his original performance on the guide vocal was more inspired and superior than later takes using large diaphragm studio condenser mics with more detail.

At the end of the day opinions are like noses everyone's got one. Some noses are more refined than others however.
When even when I travel I take Moccona coffee with me and put the milk in first. Many people laugh and say "you wouldn't be able to taste the difference" I say blindfold me and line 'em up I will smell the difference let alone taste the difference.

Now I sound like a wanker but let me say that there will always be someone better. We are teachers the level below us, workers on the level we are on and students on the level above us.

Let's not get too technical however ... often I find

Less is MORE!

The more I read you, the more I luv you! (in a non-gay way of course!) I do the same thing with my French Vanilla creamer in my hazelnut coffee! Always add the creamer first! :)

It's like me with batteries in my wireless.....I can so tell whether or not I am using a Duracell or an Energizer. No one believed me until they tested me and I passed it every time! The Duracell is a little duller sounding...the Energizer has a slight bit of 4k increased. I know...sounds like bs....I couldn't believe it either until my bassist started blind testing me, and he sat there shaking his head. One just has this slight sizzle that the other doesn't. It's probably theoretically impossible as I can't see how a battery can actually alter a sound....especially if the voltage is the same or close to it. Then again....voltage being lesser may be the culprit. That said....I am now using rechargeables in my wireless and can not tell the difference between the Duracell and the Energizer's. But regular batteries right off the shelf, I have been getting that right since I used an old Samson wireless years ago.

Less is more: I've been living by that phrase more and more these days. I think it's mainly because I have learned and evolved so much that what seemed to be more anal, tedious and loaded with perfection, was really just inexperience that took way too long to achieve something. So today I may feel like I'm not over-doing it when in reality, I've learned so much and have come so far, there's no reason for me to go over-board because I can get results better and faster with less. It's all about knowing how to get the best out of what you have. I'm actually happy about that. Mixes that took me weeks, month....now take 4-8 hours at the most. And when I tweak something, it's usually a level and just about never an eq on something.

There's another recording type thread going on where I'm trying to save the guy money over seeing him spend thousands on hype that in my opinion and experience, is just that....hype. With the right no-how on decent gear, there's nothing we really can't achieve or at least come close to. It's all about what you know in my opinion. :)
 
Yeah you're really out there curing cancer, ain't ya?

Actually I am! Sadly my Dad had a very late diagnosis for stage 4 prostate and bone cancer. The good news is that he living a relatively happy life so far ten times longer that the medical experts gave him if he did chemo and mainstream therapies. I did a LOT of research and medical grade cannabis oil along with an alkaline diet is the go. Cancer can't exist in an alkaline environment.

The more I read you, the more I luv you! (in a non-gay way of course!) I do the same thing with my French Vanilla creamer in my hazelnut coffee! Always add the creamer first! :)

Oh gee and I was gonna turn gay for you Danny! So sad :-(

Different batteries do change their output under load.

There is always the law of diminishing returns when it comes to gear and GAS. How inspired you are and your own potential are far more important however. :sunglasses:
 
In my extensive experience most pros record the unit from the analog outs direct into the console. Second most popular would be AES. Third would be analog into a preamp. I've never seen SPDIF or USB used in a pro studio... but then, I do know that a number of "guest solos" performed by Fractal artists I work with have been recorded via USB into a laptop on the bus or in the hotel.
 
In my extensive experience most pros record the unit from the analog outs direct into the console. Second most popular would be AES. Third would be analog into a preamp. I've never seen SPDIF or USB used in a pro studio... but then, I do know that a number of "guest solos" performed by Fractal artists I work with have been recorded via USB into a laptop on the bus or in the hotel.

I think the issue with USB M@, is most of the USB units suffer with latency issues. They have come a long way though. For example, though I don't use it often, the USB in my Midas console goes down to 64 (1.5ms I believe) samples with ease and allows for 32 simultaneous tracks to be recorded. But I never have to drop my buffers because the console is "live". The only time I drop it is when I record a soft synth. It's never even dropped out or broken a sweat. That said, when I've used it, it sounds as good as my really good interfaces which are getting around the same RTL. Some of my friends that use USB, can barely touch 256 samples via buffer size without drop outs and loads of latency....so my guess is, it's probably due to the manufacturer as well as the pc the unit may be running through.
 
In my extensive experience most pros record the unit from the analog outs direct into the console. Second most popular would be AES. Third would be analog into a preamp. I've never seen SPDIF or USB used in a pro studio... but then, I do know that a number of "guest solos" performed by Fractal artists I work with have been recorded via USB into a laptop on the bus or in the hotel.

Hi! This is Cliff right?
Would you please clarify if the signal sent via USB is the same 24bit 48Khz signal sent via AES/EBU or is it somewhat compressed to reduce latency?
 
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plz-stop-post.jpg

I think you should have aimed this post at yourself mate, you have posted numerous times in this thread, and each time has just been a flat out insult with no contribution (let alone a worthwhile one) whatsoever. Very poor attitude...


USB user myself, don't have an interface so just stick to using the Axe FX II direct, works brilliantly for me!
 
I think the issue with USB M@, is most of the USB units suffer with latency issues. They have come a long way though. For example, though I don't use it often, the USB in my Midas console goes down to 64 (1.5ms I believe) samples with ease and allows for 32 simultaneous tracks to be recorded. But I never have to drop my buffers because the console is "live". The only time I drop it is when I record a soft synth. It's never even dropped out or broken a sweat. That said, when I've used it, it sounds as good as my really good interfaces which are getting around the same RTL. Some of my friends that use USB, can barely touch 256 samples via buffer size without drop outs and loads of latency....so my guess is, it's probably due to the manufacturer as well as the pc the unit may be running through.


Hey Danny, love your videos btw, great stuff!

Just wondering if you'd know the answer to this;

If you're using the Axe FX as an interface and recording directly via USB, but monitoring out of the back output into a couple of studio monitors.

There is no latency (to me) of the direct guitar audio (unless monitoring in software at the same time), but perhaps there is some latency on the recording as it travels through the USB cable and into my DAW? I'm using Studio One 2 which I think may even automatically correct for latency on recordings...

If that is the case, is there any issue of where the latency can become apparent or create issues?

Thanks alot!
 
Actually I am! Sadly my Dad had a very late diagnosis for stage 4 prostate and bone cancer. The good news is that he living a relatively happy life so far ten times longer that the medical experts gave him if he did chemo and mainstream therapies. I did a LOT of research and medical grade cannabis oil along with an alkaline diet is the go. Cancer can't exist in an alkaline environment.



Oh gee and I was gonna turn gay for you Danny! So sad :-(

Different batteries do change their output under load.

There is always the law of diminishing returns when it comes to gear and GAS. How inspired you are and your own potential are far more important however. :sunglasses:


Good on you! My mother cured her cancer through diet and lifestyle alone, after being told she would "die very soon" if she did not get surgery and follow doctors orders of poisoning the body with drugs etc... Cannabis oil is certainly one of the most powerful anti-tumour/carcinogen compounds, it is not the only thing out there (thousands of foods, herbs, and spices have the power to destroy cancer cells), but it is one of the most effective for sure. Best of luck to him!
 
The "pros' should use a Neve RNDI as the instrument interface then run to the AxeFx then direct to an audio interface. The RNDIs are incredible I have several and will be getting more!
 
The "pros' should use a Neve RNDI as the instrument interface then run to the AxeFx then direct to an audio interface. The RNDIs are incredible I have several and will be getting more!

I try not to should on anyone.
I am sure that most Pro Audio studios have more high end Neve or Neve level quality mic pres, di's and interfaces than an $250 RNDI
There are also a myriad of ways to skin a cat and yours is just one.
If I was to use an RNDI with an Axe I would record the guitar direct with it and use the thru output to go to the Axe for a sound that is inspiring for tracking and then later re amp and tweak from the di recording.
 
Hey Danny, love your videos btw, great stuff!

Just wondering if you'd know the answer to this;

If you're using the Axe FX as an interface and recording directly via USB, but monitoring out of the back output into a couple of studio monitors.

There is no latency (to me) of the direct guitar audio (unless monitoring in software at the same time), but perhaps there is some latency on the recording as it travels through the USB cable and into my DAW? I'm using Studio One 2 which I think may even automatically correct for latency on recordings...

If that is the case, is there any issue of where the latency can become apparent or create issues?

Thanks alot!

Thanks for the kind words!

Because you are in real time with your axe and are not using it to echo/input monitor through your DAW, you should not get any latency.

If you were to hear any audible latency, it would most likely be due to Studio One needing an asio offset.

For example, we have an offset option in SONAR that literally fixes drifting audio. This comes from the interface to DAW communication.

I'll dig out one of my old videos to show you what I mean when I get a chance. But sometimes, recorded audio can be early or late. We can test for this by running a noise file on a track and then taking the output of that noise file and feeding it into an input of our interface

We hit record and hope that when the audio records that it is perfect with the test file we had. Chances are it will be late. So we would measure in samples, how off it is...input the offset into our DAW (if applicable) and rerecord the test file to see that it is in perfect sync.

If you are getting latency ( which I know you aren't ) there are loads of things that can cause it. In your particular situation, you'd only pick up latency if you were using your interface to record other things.

I've not tried this using the axe fx interface, but if I loaded a piano VSTi and tried to play it in real time, I believe I would vet latency in the axe with its default buffer size of 2048.

I'd have to set it to at least 128 to be able to play without it being late. That's the only time you run into latency with the setup you and I have. My console works the same way.

Everything is live and input monitoring is not needed, so I have zero latency. I hope these were the answers you were looking for. :)
 
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