Do major firmware updates make commercial preset packs obsolete?

For those of you who purchase commercial preset packs, do you find that those presets hold up after a firmware revision like 16.01? If you go in and reset your amp block and/or other blocks to bring in the settings required by 16.01, how does that affect the quality of the presets that were created by the vendor under an earlier firmware revision? I was always a bit skeptical about purchasing those packs because it seemed to me that they had a relatively short lifetime depending on the frequency of Cliff's eureka moments.
I think it’s a symbiotic relationship between a constantly-evolving hardware/firmware platform and the semi-independent “customizers” who base their work on it. Those independents (some of whom are also valuable “beetas”) already know what they’re in for and set their prices/policies accordingly. Do I expect reasonable performance enhancements after “minor” firmware updates? Sure. Do I expect “free” services in support of major (i.e. 15 to 16) firmware updates forever? Of course not. I want to make sure my suppliers are charging enough to still be around tomorrow to provide me with their stellar work, and no matter what they charge it’s always far less than what MY time would cost to even attempt to do what they are so very good at.

Time is money.
 
Reasonable question to ask. I'll wade in here...

1. Not every released public firmware update will change amp sounds. Some do, and some don't.

2. Fractal Audio genius/guru Cliff Chase usually notes in the release notes of any firmware if any specific amps (or everything) needs to be reset or the sounds in your existing presets will change. So look there first - that's your "proceed with caution" message.

Firmware update are the price of progress, and Cliff is always striving to make the firmware better in his pursuit of perfection, and Fractal doesn't charge you for firmware updates. Think about that. I think that's f'ing amazing.

3. First, I always back up EVERYTHING and save the old firmware file before I update. That way I can always revert backwards easily to what I had.

4. As a commercial preset maker, I always included one or two FREE future updates when a customer buys one of my TonePacks, so they won't worry about their purchase becoming obsolete in a year... (seems like we get a major firmware every year or so...sometimes quicker!).

Even so, I have always written in that same disclaimer that I reserve the right to charge for future updates, in case it just becomes so overwhelming and I have to cover my time. That said, so far, I have never charged for any TonePack update. For example, On the Axe-Fx III, I did firmware 1, then released an update for firmware 5-6, then firmware 11-12 and then mostly recently for firmware 15.

5. The only criticism some might offer is "well, it takes you awhile to put out an update after the final firmware release." True! Because usually hundreds of presets are involved, and when I update I listen to EACH ONE. (Does anyone really expect I can update 1000+ presets two weeks after a final firmware release? hope not... :oops: ).

7. Once Cygnus is FINAL (not beta) I will do TonePack updates for Cygnus starting with LiveGold, but since it is still BETA that firmware can change again and again before it is FINAL as bugs are discovered, etc. (Although I do fool with new firmwares in the interim on my TonePack presets, to see what changes need to happen...).

It will take some months after Cygnus is final to do everything -- but I care about quality, and about doing it right (if Cliff does, how can I not try to meet that standard?).

I actually A/B each sound of old versus new firmware when I update, because I have two Axe-Fx III units, so I can try to keep the preset/scene sound in the same ball park as the original one, but include any tonal improvement the latest firmware made, whenever possible. My customers deserve it - and they have truly been GREAT and patient, knowing the end product will be worth it.

8. Keep in mind, nothing is wrong with firmware 15! It still sounds amazing. I'm doing band rehearsals for Aerosmith tunes (Rocks! Toys!) using firmware 15, and it's f'ing killing.

You'd be surprised that a lot of big touring bands that use Fractal gear rarely if ever upgrade firmwares -- once they get the sound they want and everything working flawlessly, they freeze and don't update firmwares.

9. Firmware updates aren't like Windows updates where you NEED to do them (unless they fix some fatal bug) - they are purely at your option and discretion to do.

10. (Because every list needs "10" things, I added this line). So my advice is, play more, tweak less. Find/get five or ten sounds you really love and spring them on the world. You don't have to update firmwares to get there. Carry on!
 
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+1. Personally I do try and update my commercial preset packs whenever a new fw has a major impact on amp block and drive block. When a new fw comes out, sometimes preset packs just sound better without touching anything, and sometimes they need a retouch because the new fw added more drive, or more treble, or more bass, or whatever.
Said that, it doesn't mean that a preset made with fw 12.xx doesn't sound good with fw 15. It might sound slightly "different", but it generally shouldn't sound "worse". As a matter of fact, if I dont release an update, it means that I'm still gigging with the former revision!
 
+1 as well, although only +1 hardly seems enthusiastic enough for me.
As an audio guy playing for fun but hypercritical about sound quality, I appreciate AB’s hard work +1,000 so that I’m able to follow #10 religiously.
 
WOW, AustinBuddy - Please "wade in" anytime, and thanks!

It will take some months after Cygnus is final to do everything -- but I care about quality, and about doing it right (if Cliff does, how can I not try to meet that standard?).

So is it good to buy the Live-Gold now knowing "Cygnus" will be released soon and having to wait months for the update from you? Just wondering how to do this?
 
WOW, AustinBuddy - Please "wade in" anytime, and thanks!



So is it good to buy the Live-Gold now knowing "Cygnus" will be released soon and having to wait months for the update from you? Just wondering how to do this?

I'd say you have three options:

1. buy now, stay with FW 15.01
2. buy now, see how it sounds with Cygnus, re-tweak what you don't like
3. buy when it's been updated
 
Or even, how about trying to use commercial presets the way I tend to? Bet I'm not the only one. Haven't tried AustinBuddy yet, but I will. This way, they will never become obsolete.

The real value to me is in seeing how someone that has a good ear for tone, and has done a lot of experimentation with the Axe FX goes about setting up. I have enjoyed ML Sound Labs presets, and have bought them alongside cab packs just to see how Mikko goes about tweaking settings to get something that sounds similar to "the amp in the studio" once he is happy that the IRs are a good reflection of the cab. In that case it's really just about setting tone, gain and master volume to get the driven "feel" of the amp right, and then tweaking EQ to get the overall tonal balance. Cute trick, never would have thought of it, or properly understood what he was doing, without buying and inspecting the presets.

Then there's AustinBuddy. I watched a couple of videos. Really nice trick in Live Gold of making half the scenes work for humbuckers, and the other half work for single coils. I bet there are at least 5 more tricks in there. I'll probably hold out for his take on Cygnus now, because I just loaded in v16 Beta, and I don't think I want to go back to v15.

Either way, it won't be about having "ready to use" presets, it will be about what I can learn from them. The first can become obsolete, but the latter will be mine forever. If preset updates keep coming for new FW versions that's absolutely great, but I don't need that for good commercial presets to be of value to me. I've been playing guitar, setting up amps and effects, and working to get good recorded and live sounds for well over 35 years now. The main thing I have learnt is not to be too proud to pick up knowledge from anyone that is willing to offer it. Even if my takeaway is that their way of doing things doesn't work for me, I'm still learning something.

Liam
 
Or even, how about trying to use commercial presets the way I tend to? Bet I'm not the only one. Haven't tried AustinBuddy yet, but I will. This way, they will never become obsolete.

The real value to me is in seeing how someone that has a good ear for tone, and has done a lot of experimentation with the Axe FX goes about setting up. I have enjoyed ML Sound Labs presets, and have bought them alongside cab packs just to see how Mikko goes about tweaking settings to get something that sounds similar to "the amp in the studio" once he is happy that the IRs are a good reflection of the cab. In that case it's really just about setting tone, gain and master volume to get the driven "feel" of the amp right, and then tweaking EQ to get the overall tonal balance. Cute trick, never would have thought of it, or properly understood what he was doing, without buying and inspecting the presets.

Then there's AustinBuddy. I watched a couple of videos. Really nice trick in Live Gold of making half the scenes work for humbuckers, and the other half work for single coils. I bet there are at least 5 more tricks in there. I'll probably hold out for his take on Cygnus now, because I just loaded in v16 Beta, and I don't think I want to go back to v15.

Either way, it won't be about having "ready to use" presets, it will be about what I can learn from them. The first can become obsolete, but the latter will be mine forever. If preset updates keep coming for new FW versions that's absolutely great, but I don't need that for good commercial presets to be of value to me. I've been playing guitar, setting up amps and effects, and working to get good recorded and live sounds for well over 35 years now. The main thing I have learnt is not to be too proud to pick up knowledge from anyone that is willing to offer it. Even if my takeaway is that their way of doing things doesn't work for me, I'm still learning something.

Liam
Far more than 5, my friend. AB goes in there pretty deep sometimes.
 
Far more than 5, my friend. AB goes in there pretty deep sometimes.
Sometimes I gotta wring an amp model’s to get it to do what I want it to/what I want to hear... but most times it is no struggle at all because the Fractal Amp modeling as gotten so spot-on accurate over these past 10 years...

For final sculpting, sometimes the passive 5 band Graphic EQ placed post Cab is your friend...
 
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