DIY Fret Leveling & crowning

[Doc Rock]

TBH, bridge and nut height are irrelevant to fret leveling. In fact, there's no way to know what the correct bridge or nut height will be until you're done removing metal.

True words, of course. I was referring to my own workflow, the emphasis being on getting the neck straight BEFORE leveling, crowning, and polishing frets.

 

[Rex]

True words, of course. I was referring to my own workflow, the emphasis being on getting the neck straight BEFORE leveling, crowning, and polishing frets.

Understood.

 

[lauke-lux]

Stop the nonsense, you might be capable to do small corrections but the risk you fuck up your guitar is high. You want your axe to play fine : have it plekked by a specialised retailer.

 

[lwknives]

Stop the nonsense, you might be capable to do small corrections but the risk you fuck up your guitar is high. You want your axe to play fine : have it plekked by a specialised retailer.

I’m not sure I agree with this statement... maybe for some people who just don’t have any mechanical aptitude or patience. It’s really not as hard as all that.

 

[lauke-lux]

I’m not sure I agree with this statement... maybe for some people who just don’t have any mechanical aptitude or patience. It’s really not as hard as all that.

It's not because it's not hard that I wouldn't take the risk off changing the transmission belt of my car, whatever be the value. The problem with fret leveling is that unlike with "standard" replacement jobs, here you alter the guitar in an irremediable way....the matter you RIP of with these tools you just cannot bring it back ever...which is why one should leave such operations to (good) and experienced personnel. Or you can afford to definitely ruin the frets and pay your axe a refretting.

 

[Doc Rock]

It's not because it's not hard that I wouldn't take the risk off changing the transmission belt of my car, whatever be the value. The problem with fret leveling is that unlike with "standard" replacement jobs, here you alter the guitar in an irremediable way....the matter you RIP of with these tools you just cannot bring it back ever...which is why one should leave such operations to (good) and experienced personnel. Or you can afford to definitely ruin the frets and pay your axe a refretting.

I also don't agree with this. First, I don't know anywhere here in Australia that has a Plek machine - at least not where I am.

Second - as someone said: it's not brain surgery. And given that I AM a surgeon, you'd think I should be able to learn how to do it. And given that a LONG time friend of mine is one of Australia's best luthiers, guitar builders, and pick-up makers, then you could say that I had some fairly reasonable instructions and coaching.

 

[lauke-lux]

I also don't agree with this. First, I don't know anywhere here in Australia that has a Plek machine - at least not where I am.

Second - as someone said: it's not brain surgery. And given that I AM a surgeon, you'd think I should be able to learn how to do it. And given that a LONG time friend of mine is one of Australia's best luthiers, guitar builders, and pick-up makers, then you could say that I had some fairly reasonable instructions and coaching.

Well then...go ahead, as long as it's your OWN guitar that you'll cut the brains out of, who cares ?
IMHO post participants of this forum do NOT have a LONG time world champion luthier friend and are NOT surgeon, so suggesting here that it's easy to do is not realistic. BTW good to know that surgeons are potential guitar repair specialists, I'll ask mine next time.

 

[lwknives]

It's not because it's not hard that I wouldn't take the risk off changing the transmission belt of my car, whatever be the value. The problem with fret leveling is that unlike with "standard" replacement jobs, here you alter the guitar in an irremediable way....the matter you RIP of with these tools you just cannot bring it back ever...which is why one should leave such operations to (good) and experienced personnel. Or you can afford to definitely ruin the frets and pay your axe a refretting.

I did my first fret job when I was 16 with home made straight edge with sandpaper glued to it. I used a small sanding block to crown the frets. I didn’t have any luthier friends to get advice from. I had a book that explained how to do it so I followed the directions in the book and I had a great playing guitar! So at 16 with no access to the internet and no one I knew who had ever done a fret job I did a compound radius fret board with limited tools.
it’s not quite as serious as you are letting on.

 

[JoKeR III]

Boy, just can't have a differing opinion here can we? There are some people who would rather spend the money to have someone do the work for them, others who feel that why have someone else do something they can do themselves. Nothing wrong with either point of view. Yes, there are certain jobs that have more potential to "ruin" a guitar than others but remember; those "professionals" had to learn at some point as well.

I have long held the philosophy that no one will care more about getting the job right on my stuff than I do. I have an extensive background with tools and woodworking which, when it comes to working on guitars, has helped lessen the learning curve. Yes, it takes a few attempts to learn the techniques and develop the skill but it's not unattainable. The first neck I "practiced" on received 2 complete fret replacements to get it right. I now have several fret levels and a few complete fret replacements under my belt and have achieved better results than the first fret level I paid for.

First piece of advice: Be honest with yourself and know your limitations. If you don't have a handy bone in your body, maybe working on your guitar isn't such a good idea. Second, if you are handy, do the research. There are plenty of resources online, read and watch as many as you can find. Even total hacks can have a nugget or two of good advice surrounded by horrible ideas. Glean what you can then take the plunge. If you have some modicum of success, continue practicing. If you completely destroy the neck, might be a good idea to research qualified luthiers in your area.

 

[lwknives]

I don’t have a problem at all with people not doing their own fret jobs! That’s completely understandable!
My problem was with him suggesting that others also shouldn’t do it because it is to hard for anybody to do without messing up several times.

 

[JoKeR III]

I don’t have a problem at all with people not doing their own fret jobs! That’s completely understandable!
My problem was with him suggesting that others also shouldn’t do it because it is to hard for anybody to do without messing up several times.

Agreed. My comment was all-encompassing, rather than quoting all of the comments about the futility or absurdity of attempting on our own.

 

[lauke-lux]

Of course all opinions are allowed; we live in a free world, but after going through all the wishfull thinking and valuable tips hereabove :

• you need to invest and buy the good tools, have a reasonable place/workshop to work comfortably
• you got quite some technical details to master, don't even imagine a neck with bindings
• be sure to order the correct wire type and height right away...
• last but not least : it takes time, especially if you do this once every 5 years, maybe

After all it comes down to a lot of things to take into account and remains not as easy, nor cheap whatever you think about it. No warranty for DIY.

No sweat if you feel comfortable with that, but I just want to emphasize for other readers of this thread that it may not be worth the investment, the risk and the hassle for a job you'll need to do once every 10 years - except if you play 4h a day on one single axe - and that you can get done correctly for 180 Euros by a guy who does this ten times a month for the last 10 years or more and has to make a living with it. Of course there are examples of bad luthiers...but how many 'handymen' fucked up the job and killed their guitarnecks without publishing their 'Waterloo' on the net. It doesn't cost you a penny to ask a luthier to show you one or two guitars he just refretted. I've been playing for 34 years now and I use 4-5 axes for about 10-12h a week. So far only 2 axes have needed refretting. Refretting is not a regular act you do for fun.
To finish my 2 cents (or maybe one dollar...) to this thread : you cannot change frets eternally...one, two times if you're lucky, but someday you'll have to go for a neck replacement.

 

[lwknives]

Of course all opinions are allowed; we live in a free world, but after going through all the wishfull thinking and valuable tips hereabove :

• you need to invest and buy the good tools, have a reasonable place/workshop to work comfortably
• you got quite some technical details to master, don't even imagine a neck with bindings
• be sure to order the correct wire type and height right away...
• last but not least : it takes time, especially if you do this once every 5 years, maybe

After all it comes down to a lot of things to take into account and remains not as easy, nor cheap whatever you think about it. No warranty for DIY.

No sweat if you feel comfortable with that, but I just want to emphasize for other readers of this thread that it may not be worth the investment, the risk and the hassle for a job you'll need to do once every 10 years - except if you play 4h a day on one single axe - and that you can get done correctly for 180 Euros by a guy who does this ten times a month for the last 10 years or more and has to make a living with it. Of course there are examples of bad luthiers...but how many 'handymen' fucked up the job and killed their guitarnecks without publishing their 'Waterloo' on the net. It doesn't cost you a penny to ask a luthier to show you one or two guitars he just refretted. I've been playing for 34 years now and I use 4-5 axes for about 10-12h a week. So far only 2 axes have needed refretting. Refretting is not a regular act you do for fun.
To finish my 2 cents (or maybe one dollar...) to this thread : you cannot change frets eternally...one, two times if you're lucky, but someday you'll have to go for a neck replacement.

I’ve heard more stories about people having their guitars ruined by a professional than I have people ruining their own....
Still it’s not for everyone.

 

[JoKeR III]

Of course all opinions are allowed; we live in a free world, but after going through all the wishfull thinking and valuable tips hereabove :

• you need to invest and buy the good tools, have a reasonable place/workshop to work comfortably
• you got quite some technical details to master, don't even imagine a neck with bindings
• be sure to order the correct wire type and height right away...
• last but not least : it takes time, especially if you do this once every 5 years, maybe

After all it comes down to a lot of things to take into account and remains not as easy, nor cheap whatever you think about it. No warranty for DIY.

No sweat if you feel comfortable with that, but I just want to emphasize for other readers of this thread that it may not be worth the investment, the risk and the hassle for a job you'll need to do once every 10 years - except if you play 4h a day on one single axe - and that you can get done correctly for 180 Euros by a guy who does this ten times a month for the last 10 years or more and has to make a living with it. Of course there are examples of bad luthiers...but how many 'handymen' fucked up the job and killed their guitarnecks without publishing their 'Waterloo' on the net. It doesn't cost you a penny to ask a luthier to show you one or two guitars he just refretted. I've been playing for 34 years now and I use 4-5 axes for about 10-12h a week. So far only 2 axes have needed refretting. Refretting is not a regular act you do for fun.
To finish my 2 cents (or maybe one dollar...) to this thread : you cannot change frets eternally...one, two times if you're lucky, but someday you'll have to go for a neck replacement.

Agreed, if you are the least bit hesitant, weigh the pros and cons very carefully and completely understand the risk of getting it wrong.
As has been alluded to, it takes time to acquire the skills and it can be as expensive or relatively cheap as you want. If you want "professional" tools, you'll pay a premium price. If you are resourceful, the same level of quality can be found for much less.

The reason I chose to learn how to do my own fret-leveling is two-fold.
1. I had 2 jobs done professionally that required more work- $300 pretty much wasted.
2. I enjoy working on guitars, have done it for over 20 years. It's a hobby of mine. I only started fret work a couple of years ago.

I spent @$125 for the tools I have now and have developed a method what works for me. I have currently performed around 10 fret levels on some fairly nice guitars, all with great success. But It's not so much about saving the money as it is being able to get the job done exactly how I want it done.

Unless you're buying a high-end guitar, or don't mind fret buzz, most guitars you buy can benefit from a fret level. At the very least adding a fall-off over the last few frets which makes all the difference in a setup in my opinion. Since I buy most of my guitars used, it's nice to know that as long as the neck is straight, there's really nothing I can't fix in the guitar's setup. If you find a luthier you can trust and don't mind spending the money, that will provide the same piece of mind. To each their own.

 

[lauke-lux]

I’ve heard more stories about people having their guitars ruined by a professional than I have people ruining their own....
Still it’s not for everyone.

As indicated : people who ruin their own guitars will not publish on the internet about how stupid they were. Clients who got deceived will....so for sure you'll always hear complain about luthiers but never about people that shit in their own boots. At least this may help you not to go to a bad luthier after you ruined your axe (just kidding ;-))

 

[Rex]

If you’re patient and thoughtful, you can learn how to level the frets on a guitar. But remember that the people who find this job the easiest are usually people who already had skills with hand tools. Even with skills, your first fret level will not be as good as your tenth one. No one does their first fret job without leaving room for improvement.

Finally, I can’t agree that every guitar that’s not high-end will benefit from a fret level. In fact, before you try your hand at fret leveling, it’s a good idea to learn how to measure how far out of level it is. Then you can decide whether a leveling job is worth the permanent loss of fret height that leveling causes, and you’ll have an idea of how much fret height you’ll lose. You’ll also have the ability to measure just how level you got those frets.

Oh, and if you’re leveling a guitar with a set-in neck, don’t forget to remove the pickup rings, lower the pickups, and protect the body from that nasty leveling beam.

 

[JoKeR III]

If you’re patient and thoughtful, you can learn how to level the frets on a guitar. But remember that the people who find this job the easiest are usually people who already had skills with hand tools. Even with skills, your first fret level will not be as good as your tenth one. No one does their first fret job without leaving room for improvement.

Finally, I can’t agree that every guitar that’s not high-end will benefit from a fret level. In fact, before you try your hand at fret leveling, it’s a good idea to learn how to measure how far out of level it is. Then you can decide whether a leveling job is worth the permanent loss of fret height that leveling causes, and you’ll have an idea of how much fret height you’ll lose. You’ll also have the ability to measure just how level you got those frets.

Oh, and if you’re leveling a guitar with a set-in neck, don’t forget to remove the pickup rings, lower the pickups, and protect the body from that nasty leveling beam.

I edited my comment from the absolute statement that any guitar will benefit from a fret level. Of course, set the guitar up first and see if it needs it. Very few have the fall off I've come to prefer which is the basis for my opinion and another few have not needed any fret work at all.

 

[Rex]

I edited my comment from the absolute statement that any guitar will benefit from a fret level. Of course, set the guitar up first and see if it needs it. Very few have the fall off I've come to prefer which is the basis for my opinion and another few have not needed any fret work at all.

Yes, a little fall-away is a good thing.

 

[Rex]

that's how they did it back before there were crowning files... but I'm gonna have to pass on that experience. way too much work.

Some jobs leave you no choice but to do it the traditional way. When a customer has low frets already, the frets are way out of level, and he like the “fretless wonder” treatment, a crowning file will bottom out on the fingerboard

there is that much variance in the sandpaper one might use esp the lower grits. further variance introduced when you polish the frets. so my point is... I use levels so that I can run thru lower grits quickly - not sure if that came across in my post. it's really only the last passes that have to be super accurate.

Even at 120 grit, you can achieve flatness to .0015”. And you want to. It’s hard to remove significant material when the grit goes up. But the time you hit 220 grit, you can achieve .001”. Careful polishing won’t change that number.

fret jobs are a breeze... it's your first few fret jobs that aren't. that said, I wouldn't do one for $300. Once you've done a few your whole perspective on what folks charge for them changes.

Once you’ve earned your living at it, you start to realize that $300 isn’t at all unreasonable for three to five hours of your time, plus the cost of maintaining a shop and running a business.

true, but fretwire is like $20 and if you mess up... just another opportunity to learn something... as long as you aren't working on a vintage strat.

That only applies if you’re doing it as a hobby.

 

[Rex]

I have found straight edges for $40.00 that were less than .005 over 4 feet! You just have to test a bunch of them against something that is known to be straight.

TBH, I wouldn’t want to do a fret job with anything that wasn’t true to less than .001” over two feet.