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Disappointment at rehearsal...

jonPhillips

Inspired
I play in a Classic Rock covers band and have recently started using the Axe-Fx to replace my old JCM800. I run the Axe directly to the PA mixing desk and use an effects loop block to take an output into a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. The effects loop block is before the cab sim in the Axe layout, so there's no cab sim going into the guitar 4x12.

I've started with two basic patches - a clean based on a Fender Twin and a distortion based on a (wait for it) JCM800. When I set up at rehearsal last night, everyone thought the sound was absolutely awesome: rich, rounded, fat and very full and there was a room full of smiley faces.

Once we started playing as a band however, the guitar just seemed buried, muddy and totally lost in the mix. EQ-ing it didn't really seem to help a great deal. I drove home last night with none of the excitement and enthusiasm I had at the start of the evening and thought it was back to the drawing board with the patches. However, before I throw the baby out with the bath water, I think I'll try some more EQ-ing at home later today and rolling off some more of the distortion. Maybe cutting the bass frequencies some more and boosting the midrange will provide the answer.

Has anyone else had a similar experience when trying out patches 'live' for the first time?
 

Smilzo

Forum Addict
jonPhillips said:
Has anyone else had a similar experience when trying out patches 'live' for the first time?
Everyone, even with boutique tube amps... :lol:

You have a "reference" JCM800 sound that cut trhu the mix. You have an Axefx patch that is "richier", full... start eq-ing Axefx for a "cutting-like" sound. Cut bass. Move tremble & mid frequencies (NOT gain). Find the "notches" similar to JCM. Watch Radley's eq tricks. :idea:
 

Muris_Varajic

Forum Addict
jonPhillips said:
Has anyone else had a similar experience when trying out patches 'live' for the first time?
Absolutely!

Luckily, I haven't had it too much with AxeFX to be honest,
it has been "plug and play" for me since I bought it, still using 90% factory presets.
But with other gear, oh yeah, tweaking gig after gig, night after night.
Just be aware that our perception of sound sometimes changes without valid reason,
that's when you need to stop tweaking for a moment and keep going with what you've got. :)
 

Tricki

Inspired
I think you have to be an AxeFx- and Sound guru if your are able to dial in a sound at home at bedroom level with cab sims on without band which works in a rehearsal room with band through a real guitar cab.

I also think that you need a decent amount of power to drive a 4x12 guitar cab, at least a 200W SS-PA.
 

Never1

Regular
When I'm creating patches for FRFR and direct to PA, I do so through my studio monitors and I use recordings of favorite songs as a reference backdrop so that I can dial in the right amount of cut/clarity and low end, relative to the track. When I get it right, the sounds on their own will be somewhat small and thin but moving from the bedroom to a stage and loud PA, they work very well.

Just an idea you might want to try.
 
>When I'm creating patches for FRFR and direct to PA, I do so through my studio monitors and I use recordings of favorite songs as a reference backdrop so that I can dial in the right amount of cut/clarity and low end, relative to the track.

Along the same lines; if you have any recordings of your band dial in your patch while playing along to that.
 

GreatGreen

Forum Addict
jonPhillips said:
I play in a Classic Rock covers band and have recently started using the Axe-Fx to replace my old JCM800. I run the Axe directly to the PA mixing desk and use an effects loop block to take an output into a Marshall 4x12 cabinet.
I am confused by this. What, specifically, is powering the Marshall 4x12 cabinet?
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Has anyone else had a similar experience when trying out patches 'live' for the first time?
Sure! Many times.

I've learned to:
1) Tweak presets at full volume, and
2) Finetune them in a band context.

This works!
However, it does mean that you have to resist the urge to keep tweaking tones and volume at home. Takes some getting used to....

Also, and this has been mentioned already, use the blocking PEQ trick!
This way the tone fits much better in the mix (on its own it may sound dull). I block below 152Hz and above 5.5kHz.
And it diminishes the need for messing with tone controls.
 

LPSlinger

Inspired
Has anyone else had a similar experience when trying out patches 'live' for the first time?
For sure! Like you, I play classic / party rock and was stoked about a new Hiwatt patch I wanted to introduce at my last gig, well, it cut like a knife and sounded great but left my main JCM800 patch sounding dull & lifeless by comparison. Point is, even when you have go-to live patches the introduction of something new can throw your tone perception off kilter. :)

LP
 

jonPhillips

Inspired
GreatGreen said:
jonPhillips said:
I play in a Classic Rock covers band and have recently started using the Axe-Fx to replace my old JCM800. I run the Axe directly to the PA mixing desk and use an effects loop block to take an output into a Marshall 4x12 cabinet.
I am confused by this. What, specifically, is powering the Marshall 4x12 cabinet?
An SLA-1 power amp (running in bridged mode).
 

steelplayer

New here
Oh man, I soooo had this problem too. First rehearsal out with the Axe was the absolute pits. I had dialed in all of my patches at lower levels and they sounded GREAT. I was doing the victory lap all the way to practice, and until we hit the first song of the first set.......

Problem was for me that the Axe sounded so damn good at the lower levels I just didn't bother to fire it up at higher volume. Next day, after a couple of hours of forum reading here, I re-tweaked the patches at gig/rehearsal level and haven't looked back since.
 

henryrobinett

Fractal Fanatic
I'll find out on Saturday with my first real rehearsal. Then the next day my first gig. Technically I've had two rehearsals/recording sessions with my band already, but those don't count. Headphones and the Ultra was going straight into the board.

I'll let you know.
 

guitarmike

Veteran
What sounds great by its self does not necesarily sound good in the context of a band - especially at higher volumes. I set the axe up at eye level during rehersal and start with a patch that I think sounds good, inevitably I end up having to tweek it. A JCM 800 has never sounded great to me by itself, but has been one of my main amps in the context of a band because of the same mid range that i dont like by itself - ironic. Set your Jcm 800 up, use an ab box and switch between the 800 and the axe with equal volume - you should be able to match them up really close. Also, try the SLO amp with the gain down a bit, this amp gets a great marshall type tone to my ears - my favorite.
 
BTW,
if I'm going FRFR, and want to play in the band with an FRFR Loud speaker like the FBT Verve for example, should the Mic option be set to 'None'?
 

henryrobinett

Fractal Fanatic
Oh yeah -- BTW my rehearsal and gig went great. No problem. What sounded great at home sounded great at rehearsal and sounded great at the gig.
 

knoll

Inspired
emperor_black said:
BTW,
if I'm going FRFR, and want to play in the band with an FRFR Loud speaker like the FBT Verve for example, should the Mic option be set to 'None'?
I think there is no "should" with stock IRs. Use what gets the best results for you. If you use User IRs that already contain a mic, e.g. Red Wirez IRs, then for the most realistic reproduction the mic option should be set to 'None'.
 

FlyingV

Inspired
Does tweaking work with "stage volume" im my headphones ?
( Seems stupid, but I am not sure, for my ears its the same volume ??? )
 
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