Disappointed...

mesavox said:
The only thing I can really add to this is that dealing with frosting is a tricky issue. Sometimes I have to ask myself, "does having a gazillion options really make me sound any better than Brian May did with a treble boost slamming the front in of an AC30 with all the top boost guts ripped out?

Its fun to play with presets and try to get as close as a record as I can, but I've also been in a band for the better part of 10 years that has to play covers mixed with originals and my 2 channel Mesa DC3 with a Tube Scream set drive off and mids slightly up for a mid/lead boost was never a problem in playing as well as I ever needed to play, or in playing music with all the proper emotion and energy it might need.

This is where knowing the product as described from the factory becomes very important. I know going into this that I can't mix 4 amps, and rout the sun back through the moon and for all I know throw a legit Neve preamp at the end of the chain (just throwing that out there for the sake of assumers everywhere lol). I'm going from a tube amp on stage to being prepared to get myself used to going direct to the board (I haven't actually seen how many people are micing full range speakers) for the first time in years. The last time I did this I had a POD 2.0 and ran some pedals to make up for the limitations in the effects. While this sounded better than anything that had preceded (I had used a Korg AX30G which had definitely come a long way for direct guitars, but boy to listen to it now used that way... whew LOL) I wasn't really nailing any sound I was after, but I at least felt like I had a basic amp sound.

Needless to say, the idea of being able to basically have a very realistic sound like I'm used to in the Mesa models, and add the headroomy sound a 100 power amp would have (I have EL84s so, the only thing I can't really do is that big punchy thing) and then even hearing some of the patches in the patch page of the Van Halen and Pink Floyd stuff... WOW.

Something else I have to keep in mind is that 9 times out of 10 we're going to be mono live. In fact, I don't think we were run stereo when we opened for REO Speedwagon, and that was a pretty massive production over all, and I don't think REO even ran stereo. I think where the things were discussing in this thread really come into play are in the studio in most instances. Maybe some layer a whole bunch of amps live, but anyone who's ever played a clubs knows that the sonics in most of them don't lend to hearing such fine tuning. Sometimes we're eqing our guitars at the board in such an ugly fashion just to cut that we wonder why we bothered spending so much money on our tube amp in the first place. LOL

The good news if someone did get the AX8 thinking it would do all the extras an AXE FXII does is that we can always layer tracks and we can always record with the AX8 and then reroute it through an aux for its effects, and of course there are some definite professional plugins out there... even for home studios.

Convenience in the matter is personal, but I would encourage anyone to remember that the AX8 in any weakness is still better than any other processor on the market. They've passed TC and Lexicon for effects. At the end of the day, make music with what you have because yesterday is gone... both for the good (better gear now) and bad (we're not getting any youth back). So definitely redeem the day, and put that AX8 to use because you can do more with that than 99% of all history could do in making music. Thats not a corrective comment to people who've posted, its an encouragement to keep in mind when you get fired up about things. Get fired up about making music instead.
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Yep, just what we really need around here. Another level head..........well said....
 
EDIT: I was trying to and thought I was helping - Guess somedid not think so? Cannot win for losin.


@OP-I think some of the replies are coming because it has been known for quite a while that the AX8 was not the AXfxII. That's all. So I guess we all knew that, knew what to expect. But it seems you didn't to a degree (that is not a dig) or you wouldn't have been so disappointed.. I understand about the parameters you say are missing. But see. most of us weren't\aren't looking at that. We're listening to the sounds...Because, once again we knew pretty much what to expect.

I have owned a standard,an Ultra, AxeFX I, axefx II, AxeFX XL, and now I have an XL+. But still the ax8 blew me away. Because I was expecting "less" not more.and not the same - I was expecting that no way could it touch my XL+, But it did.

It's all good-I just mean a lot depends on what you are expecting when you fire up a guitar product for the first time. The amps were the same to me. Guess I don't use the 2 or 3 parameters that are\were missing. That's all...No biggie. You didn't own ity anyway so that's a good thing - you didn't have to worry about it. Imagine a newbie (never played any axefx) firing up the AX8--they'd be floored.
It's OK how you feel, not a problem at all...
As I said it's all good - Things are nice here in guitar world for us-ain't it something....
 
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Annnnnnd Firmware v2.02 was released about 6 hours after this was posted...

Another way to try and save CPU if you *need* reverb... If you are also using a Delay block, go to the "Tone/Duck" page in AX8-Edit, and turn up "Diffusion" instead of adding a Reverb block... *might* give you the extra DSP % you need if it works for you...
 
hippietim said:
Line 6 is a great example. But not for the reasons you state. They do improve their stuff. At the same time, they repackage it and make it available in a variety of form factors and capabilities. For example, when they came out with the Amplifi, it was not equivalent to their flagship modeler at the time - they repackaged some older technology into a new form factor with different features but it couldn't do what the HD500 could. They just introduced the Firehawk amp and it isn't based on the Helix models - it's HD and XT based. They've got a long history of doing this with the POD, Spider amps, Flextone, etc.

Anyone expecting the AX8 to be an upgrade over the AxeII + MFC for half the price is not paying attention.
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Line 6 and its product line uses the SOP of most corporations thees days, repackage some product with little changes and designed obsolescence in an attempt to make the most money out of their clients. Fractal is a company with old time values by making the best product it can out of the gate and then supporting that product for years. What a concept! It's refreshing to see a company with morals and not just a bloated corporation feeding its top heavy monster. Thank you Cliff and the gang!
 
I research most things I buy, especially music related purchases. Even though the AX8 is new and not everyone is aware of it's capabilities, it's not hard to figure out it can't do what the Axe II does. An Axe II rig will cost you double the AX8 - so why is it a surprise it's only half as powerful?

As far as the line6 argument, they made a pretty interface, which is all that a lot notice. The reason it can run 4 amps at a time is lack of detailed algorithms. This doesn't mean it sounds bad, but I would make a bet that anyone with decerning hearing will hear much more linearity in the modeling.
 
NeoSound said:
I research most things I buy, especially music related purchases. Even though the AX8 is new and not everyone is aware of it's capabilities, it's not hard to figure out it can't do what the Axe II does. An Axe II rig will cost you double the AX8 - so why is it a surprise it's only half as powerful?

As far as the line6 argument, they made a pretty interface, which is all that a lot notice. The reason it can run 4 amps at a time is lack of detailed algorithms. This doesn't mean it sounds bad, but I would make a bet that anyone with decerning hearing will hear much more linearity in the modeling.
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I would be happy to pay for a AX10 with the same power than the AxeFXII at the same price of the AXEFXII !
 
I never ever expected the AX8 to be anything other than a truncated version of my AFII. I needed portability and convenience. This is not the AFII. As far as improved technology it IS. This is not the AFII. This is close to the first iteration of the AX8. One is not the other. One is not the other. If you have a clear concept of why you need a AX8 instead of or in addition to AFII then you should be fine. But don't expect it to be the same.
 
1poorplayer said:
Now that's funny right there....lol

This evolved into one ugly thread. I think M@ should swing the almighty ax.... soon.
Cut the rope and let it sink.
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Where do you see ugly. It's ok for someone to voice their disappointment but it's not ok for some to chime in? I have re read every post in this thread and I do not see anyone getting nasty. I see folks disagreeing - I see more folks trying to help and others disagreeing with some "basic" things he said that some of us feel are not really representative of the unit. So, big deal.

And this is not nasty either. If your going to post on iPhone thread about how iPhones disappoint you and then you proceed to talk about things that others feel are not lacking like you say they are - expect a little feedback-or pushback. nobody cursed or screamed.
In fact the ONLY nasty comment was made by the OP because he misinterpreted someones post.

Stating "don't be a douche"...it's clear to see it was in jest.

And to the 2nd one - what

jzucker said:
one thing that always strikes me on these threads is how the fanboys will defend to the death their favorite team. I think it's ok if we objectively comment on the strengths *AND* weaknesses of a product so it can improve.
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And what would you expect to happen - Can we not repond if we truly feel that what the OP points out as lacking we do not see it that way.
80% of these posts were trying to help the op and yes it was repeated a few times (by me also) about the differences one should have expected with said product. The rest is in my reply above because once again this thread is a discussion, debate then if you need that, but that's all it is.

This thread is calm and serene, trust me, I have been in a few over the years. Nothing wrong with this thread.
And actually their is nothing wrong with the 2 posts I quoted - just felt a need to say - it's just a discussion.

Now kill the thread because I dared to post what I feel.
 
jzucker said:
one thing that always strikes me on these threads is how the fanboys will defend to the death their favorite team. I think it's ok if we objectively comment on the strengths *AND* weaknesses of a product so it can improve.
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Not being fanboy, just realizing the obvious... It costs half as much... Don't expect miracles. And really, is this something to be so upset about? 90%of the best guitar tones in history were one amp with auxed in verb and some delay added during the solo or highlighted bit. Compromising a gazzillion effects and amp layers down to a unit that costs half as much is not only to be expected, it's still going to sound better than most things in history short of hauling around all the amps.

Suggesting things for improvement yes... Being disappointed when the thing costs half as much and is still virtually limitless in a live setting even without seem less switching from clean to distortion... I think that's just a first world problem because someone is already used to a 2500 dollar piece of gear.

Frankly, the bells and whistles are nice but if you can't strip down to one or two amps with basic effects that most every other player uses, I think something else is wrong... It certainly isn't a first class piece of gear doing what's it says it does.

That's not an attack on the op.... I don't know how much he needs anythything... It's just a point that commenting on this by pointing out what the product really is isn't exactly being fanboi defenders. It's just being real.

I normally use a boogie dream theater kind of sound and I know for a fact that I could play any show I may ever find myself in with that great plexus eruption patch in the other section... That tells me that I can certainly live without 4 amp layers, 3 verbs for different parts of the song, and ping pongs across the stereo field while moving backwards and forwards at the same time. Lol yeah if I have the power why not but there is even a difference in "use a spring reverb" and pointing out that even the nice verb you want can be left in all blocks so you don't kill your power just for adding length to the tail for one part of one song.

I don't know how powerful the ax8 actually is since I don't have one yet but Chris's videos are pretty intense... I'm having trouble imagining what all on earth must be going on and just how fancy a preset has to be to play a guitar and make meaningful music.

Sorry for the verbosity but when I already went through so much effort to explain something that is, quite frankly something important, it's a little frustrating that the best some people can get out of a unit that is half the price of what they're comparing it to is that those who make that point and offer thoughts on how to deal with the mode lacks are just silly fanbois. My inner millennial comes out "...I mean like REALLY?!?!" Lol
 
I for one am not bothered by you being in disappointed. I was just clarifying the problem when one tries to compare a different thing to a different thing an expect the same, or better.
 
NeoSound said:
I research most things I buy, especially music related purchases. Even though the AX8 is new and not everyone is aware of it's capabilities, it's not hard to figure out it can't do what the Axe II does. An Axe II rig will cost you double the AX8 - so why is it a surprise it's only half as powerful?

As far as the line6 argument, they made a pretty interface, which is all that a lot notice. The reason it can run 4 amps at a time is lack of detailed algorithms. This doesn't mean it sounds bad, but I would make a bet that anyone with decerning hearing will hear much more linearity in the modeling.
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Like you I've been looking at a bunch of things: Atomic Amplifire, L6 Helix, BIAS, FAS gear, and Kemper. All have their allure and all have their short comings. I do like the interface on the Helix and think its clever, but I also think that if that joystick wears out quick the unit turns into a brick. Amplifire interface is virtually non existent, Kemper isn't as flexible as AX8 or AX FX, and BIAS seems like a nice VST but not practical for any live playing. AX FX ( add in MFC, expression pedal X 2, power conditioner ) is expensive and way way way more than I need or even justify, except for vanity or self delusion. Tho I am prone to both vanity and self delusion at times. :D

I don't think anyone gets into the weeds of digitally reproducing amps and effects with all the nuances the way Cliff and FAS does. And, in the end, it is about how it sounds and feels. Which is why I'm hanging around here and not on other web sites for other gear.

It's all good . . . .
 
mesavox said:
The only thing I can really add to this is that dealing with frosting is a tricky issue. Sometimes I have to ask myself, "does having a gazillion options really make me sound any better than Brian May did with a treble boost slamming the front in of an AC30 with all the top boost guts ripped out?

Its fun to play with presets and try to get as close as a record as I can, but I've also been in a band for the better part of 10 years that has to play covers mixed with originals and my 2 channel Mesa DC3 with a Tube Scream set drive off and mids slightly up for a mid/lead boost was never a problem in playing as well as I ever needed to play, or in playing music with all the proper emotion and energy it might need.

This is where knowing the product as described from the factory becomes very important. I know going into this that I can't mix 4 amps, and rout the sun back through the moon and for all I know throw a legit Neve preamp at the end of the chain (just throwing that out there for the sake of assumers everywhere lol). I'm going from a tube amp on stage to being prepared to get myself used to going direct to the board (I haven't actually seen how many people are micing full range speakers) for the first time in years. The last time I did this I had a POD 2.0 and ran some pedals to make up for the limitations in the effects. While this sounded better than anything that had preceded (I had used a Korg AX30G which had definitely come a long way for direct guitars, but boy to listen to it now used that way... whew LOL) I wasn't really nailing any sound I was after, but I at least felt like I had a basic amp sound.

Needless to say, the idea of being able to basically have a very realistic sound like I'm used to in the Mesa models, and add the headroomy sound a 100 power amp would have (I have EL84s so, the only thing I can't really do is that big punchy thing) and then even hearing some of the patches in the patch page of the Van Halen and Pink Floyd stuff... WOW.

Something else I have to keep in mind is that 9 times out of 10 we're going to be mono live. In fact, I don't think we were run stereo when we opened for REO Speedwagon, and that was a pretty massive production over all, and I don't think REO even ran stereo. I think where the things were discussing in this thread really come into play are in the studio in most instances. Maybe some layer a whole bunch of amps live, but anyone who's ever played a clubs knows that the sonics in most of them don't lend to hearing such fine tuning. Sometimes we're eqing our guitars at the board in such an ugly fashion just to cut that we wonder why we bothered spending so much money on our tube amp in the first place. LOL

The good news if someone did get the AX8 thinking it would do all the extras an AXE FXII does is that we can always layer tracks and we can always record with the AX8 and then reroute it through an aux for its effects, and of course there are some definite professional plugins out there... even for home studios.

Convenience in the matter is personal, but I would encourage anyone to remember that the AX8 in any weakness is still better than any other processor on the market. They've passed TC and Lexicon for effects. At the end of the day, make music with what you have because yesterday is gone... both for the good (better gear now) and bad (we're not getting any youth back). So definitely redeem the day, and put that AX8 to use because you can do more with that than 99% of all history could do in making music. Thats not a corrective comment to people who've posted, its an encouragement to keep in mind when you get fired up about things. Get fired up about making music instead.
Click to expand...
I realized that bringing a Marshall stack to half of my gigs was like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight....plus the sound guy hatin on me....this AX8 was a game changer for me....
 
It's not a matter of frosting. I create rigs that have a common set of effects.

I like to have chorus, delay and overdrive that I can activate via buttons 6, 7 & 8.

And for certain things like holdsworth clean you just need lots of delays.

But I've pointed out before that if you create a TS9->FenderAmp->2x12cab->Pitch->delay->reverb you will run out of CPU.

you have to back down the resolution of the cab or the reverb to make it fit. chorus, delay and overdrive are *NOT* frosting.

I think it's dangerous on sponsored forums to be dismissive of people's concerns and/or critiques. There's nothing wrong with loving the axefx & ax8 (as I do) but still have wishes or room for improvement. And folks chiming in that they don't have the same issue with their more meager presets is really not helpful.

Let's allow folks with legit wishes or critiques to be heard without the noise and chest pounding of the fans.
 
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