Direct recording - acoustic reinforcement

T

torkolort

Inspired
There have been a couple of posts about the use of headphones as monitors when recording direct. There are different opinions regarding this, but what really started to convince me was what Cliff said in one of the posts:

Because there's no string and body reinforcement. When you play through speakers the sound couples into the guitar body and strings. With headphones you don't get this so the sound is very sterile and lifeless.

The sterile and lifeless sound is just what I experience when using headphones. I've never understood why there would be such a huge difference between headphones and real monitors, because I thought the only purpose was to represent what is being recorded. But if I understand correctly, the monitors actually play a big part in the recording by affecting the guitar body and strings?

This could actually start to make sense, but I also have some other side effects when using headphones. I can get pretty decent rhythm tones through headphones, but lead tones are just 100% impossible for me. Even if I use a lot of gain, the higher strings are just not there. It's really hard to play, and they also sound very harsh and thin. I've experimented a lot with the PEQ, but it doesn't help. Is this also something that would be better if using real monitors? Also, I've tried to record using the Atomic cab as monitor, but the result is not any better. I didn't play very loud so I guess I need to have the volume quite high and have the cab face the guitar etc?

I've tried to find more info about this, but I guess I suck at googeling.
Thanks.
 
What about posting a sample of your harsh sounds?

In my experience studio monitors are more fun to play through than headphones.
But of course you can record lead tones with headphones.
 
I get freaking amazing sounds with my headphones on. That's the only way I'm able to play except at band rehearsals.

What headphones are you using? What type of guitar / pickups, and what sound are you after?
 
jerotas said:
I get freaking amazing sounds with my headphones on. That's the only way I'm able to play except at band rehearsals.

What headphones are you using? What type of guitar / pickups, and what sound are you after?
Click to expand...

I use a pair of DT-770 pro. I play on a Music Man JP with dimarzio humbuckers... I'm looking for Petrucci lead sounds, like the solo on spotify:track:0yo6lVHmhSRLW0dWopkcRv (10 minutes in).

I actually like even better his live lead tone 1 minute into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhSLhQEnESs.

I can get pretty close playing through the Atomic, but when recording I'm not happy with it at all. In general, it's a lot harder to play, the tones lifeless and unnatural, and it feels like the notes doesn't quite get through. I can get rhythm to sound pretty good direct, but leads are just not there at all. The highs are just fuzzy, harsh and thin, and it takes a lot more effort to get the tones right. It's really hard to explain, and I wish I could have someone here that could try everything and feel for themselves, but I only play for my self as a hobby, and I don't know any other axe-fx users or any who would understand what I'm talking about...

I will try to upload a clip with both live and direct recording as soon as I have time and hopefully you will hear the difference. Maybe it's just the natural difference between the two, but I didn't think it would be that prominent. Maybe a pickup change would help, I don't know.
 
I'm not sure which Dimarzio humbuckers are in that model, but if they're pickups that JP has used at one time or another, they're probably fine.

The fizziness can usually be dialed out by using a "blocking" eq. You just lower it until the fizziness goes away. You might need to go down to 8000Hz or lower. The cabs don't reproduce those higher fizzy frequencies very much so you don't hear it through the Atomic.

Then after you eliminiate the fizz, you can surgically put some sparkle back in the sound with another EQ block if needed. On many high gain amps I have to use the low pass filter on the amp and dial it wayyyy down, then add some "crunch" back with an EQ.

Hope that helps!
 
jerotas said:
I'm not sure which Dimarzio humbuckers are in that model, but if they're pickups that JP has used at one time or another, they're probably fine.

The fizziness can usually be dialed out by using a "blocking" eq. You just lower it until the fizziness goes away. You might need to go down to 8000Hz or lower. The cabs don't reproduce those higher fizzy frequencies very much so you don't hear it through the Atomic.

Then after you eliminiate the fizz, you can surgically put some sparkle back in the sound with another EQ block if needed. On many high gain amps I have to use the low pass filter on the amp and dial it wayyyy down, then add some "crunch" back with an EQ.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Thanks, that makes sense. At the moment I don't have any recording equipment, but I tried to just record the Atomic with my iPhone, and the result was not too far from the direct recording. I guess that's one of reasons not to use headphones for monitoring, because the missing acoustics.

I have already tried the blocking EQ around 8k, and it does take away some of the fizziness. Still, there is something that seems and feels wrong that I can't explain good enough. I guess I'll just have to continue experimenting with the EQ blocks...

Thanks for helping!
 
When you record with your iPhone, are you using it's built-in mic? Or plugging something into it?
 
Recorded with the built-in mic. Maybe it's not only the tone itself, but my perception of it. When playing live I feel the tones are much more melodic and "liquid". That's what I miss when recording. Instead the transition between each note feels more "abrupt" and doesn't have that melodic flow over it, and it feels like the tones is kind of absorbed by the noise or fuzziness or whatever I should call it. It makes it sound like I'm a much worse guitar player, even on the simplest melodies. Mistakes are also a lot more noticeable. I constantly feel that I need to turn up the drive or the input level in order to not let the notes drown, but turning it up doesn't really help. Turning it down doesn't help on the clarity either. It takes much more effort to get each tone through, and I have to be careful and mute the strings a lot in order to not "drown". It's like it's more sensible to small vibrations than the vibration from the string that is picked, if you know what I mean. It's an issue on both stock patches and on patches I created myself or downloaded. I have experimented quite a lot with the amps, cabs, EQs, noise gate etc, without success. That said, I'm not very good at tweaking.

Just to make it clear, I love my Axe-Fx and I do not want to demoralize any potential buyers. I'm pretty sure I'm either doing something wrong or that there's something wrong with me :lol: It's just frustrating not knowing what it is. I have a friend who knows a good sound engineer so I might take the Axe-Fx to him and maybe he can help me on the right track.
 
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