Different sound radiations with a real cab compared to a tube amp

[maxdown]

This is an old video now in terms of AxeFX model used and I know Steve Fryette is obviously pimping his own flatter response tube power amp designed for use with modellers but the resonance/impedance difference in SS and tube amps can be (just about) heard in the demo here.



You could always buy the now in full production LXII as your 'ever so slightly more expensive' replacement to your PS 170

But the cheaper option is to use the FM3 to shape that resonance before it hits the SS power amp to give you some of that boxy thump back.

Leon Todd having a chat about it using AxeFX III

 

[JRod4928]

Interested. Do you or @2112 remember the video name?

This is an old video now in terms of AxeFX model used and I know Steve Fryette is obviously pimping his own flatter response tube power amp designed for use with modellers but the resonance/impedance difference in SS and tube amps can be (just about) heard in the demo here.



You could always buy the now in full production LXII as your 'ever so slightly more expensive' replacement to your PS 170

But the cheaper option is to use the FM3 to shape that resonance before it hits the SS power amp to give you some of that boxy thump back.

Leon Todd having a chat about it using AxeFX III

@2112 is a treasure

 

[Rex]

Maybe just me but 170 watts at 4 ohms isn't even enough to push a cab into resonance imo unless it's like a single 12" 50 watt speaker. Sure you can crank it up so the levels are close, but with no power there is no weight to it.

When using solid state power amps, driving full range FoH, I was taught that you need 3x the speakers handling 'at minimum' to properly drive them, so a 300 watt cab is going to need 'at least' a 900 watt power amp (that's RMS not peak) to be comparable to a 100 watt tube amp, for example. We usually used double recommended as low frequency eats your power up exponentially as you bring it up with solid state.

I gigged an Axe-Fx II into a Behringer EPQ2000 into a Marshall 1960B for a couple years, it delivered the goods. I followed the same method of power handling.

That's my experience.

Resonance exists independent of signal level. There is no signal level that "pushes a cab into resonance." Resonance is always there.

 

[yek]

Not sure if that Fryette video is relevant here … in any case the sound through the ss amp in that video sounds pretty fine to me.

 

[Severed]

Resonance exists independent of signal level.

I never implied it does not.

The is no signal level that "pushes a cab into resonance." Resonance is always there.

not even going to bother.

good luck guys.

 

[maxdown]

Not sure if that Fryette video is relevant here

It's just a simple refreshingly basic showcase of the unadulterated differences between a constant processor source, a constant cab source and varying between a hi quality SS power amp and a flat response tube amp ... which I think has at least some relevance to the topic ... exploring the difference being heard between a PS 170 and the OP's tube amp (or at least it's power amp's influence) played into the same cab.

Personally I preferred the LXII over the SS amp but alas the LXII will probably never be in my grasp as it's just a bit too high a cost. The Power Station 2 is an option, albeit mono, but even it will likely not be a feasible choice as I'm going to go low footprint floor based for my digital rig - so that will be a FM3/FC6 and powered FR cabs .... no more rack with AxeFX and Matrix to carry.

I play my tube rig more than my AxeFX rig live ... but obviously 100% AxeFX at home. When I put together the FM3 rig I'll just have to grin and bear it that I'll have 2 rigs that sound differently via their respective backlines. Poor me

 

[unix-guy]

• out 2 output mode is set to mono (sum L+R)
• cab block is not in use in this scenario, because i'm talking about a real cab

Sum L+R is probably not the best choice... You could be introducing phase issues.

 

[MrPond]

Mhhhh ... interesting Good call, i'll try the copy l/r function to see if it sounds different.

 

[laxu]

It's just a simple refreshingly basic showcase of the unadulterated differences between a constant processor source, a constant cab source and varying between a hi quality SS power amp and a flat response tube amp ... which I think has at least some relevance to the topic ... exploring the difference being heard between a PS 170 and the OP's tube amp (or at least it's power amp's influence) played into the same cab.

Personally I preferred the LXII over the SS amp but alas the LXII will probably never be in my grasp as it's just a bit too high a cost. The Power Station 2 is an option, albeit mono, but even it will likely not be a feasible choice as I'm going to go low footprint floor based for my digital rig - so that will be a FM3/FC6 and powered FR cabs .... no more rack with AxeFX and Matrix to carry.

I play my tube rig more than my AxeFX rig live ... but obviously 100% AxeFX at home. When I put together the FM3 rig I'll just have to grin and bear it that I'll have 2 rigs that sound differently via their respective backlines. Poor me

I recently got the Fryette PS-100 and can say it works great with a modeler too. But so does the 100W Class D poweramp in my BluGuitar Amp 1 ME, at least at reasonable ~ 90 dB @ 1m volumes at home. The BluGuitar uses a subminiature tube in its poweramp to shape the tone and behavior to be like a tube amp and whatever they do, it works. I wouldn't necessarily buy it to use as a poweramp (as that would be wasting much of what is great about it on its own) but it can do that just fine without imparting a significant character like most tube guitar poweramps do.

The PS-100 is a bit on the heavy side though of course if you are used to hauling a tube amp it's nothing.

Since I own a Quad Cortex I could actually compare a capture of my real amp vs the real amp going into the Fryette and the sound was very close in that setup.

I also compared the FM3 in this setup but since it doesn't have an equivalent model to my real amps I just ran through a bunch of its models and played with the impedance curve settings as well. The impedance curve is useful for tuning the amp model to your cab, it helped some amp models go from having woofy bass to tightening it up with my 4x10 cab w/ 10" Greenbacks.

But no matter what I actually experienced similar issues OP has, where the FM3 sounded "narrower", "thinner", however you want to put it. Just turning up the bass does not seem to correct this nor did messing with presence/depth settings on the Fryette. The Helix 3.1 firmware and QC don't have this issue. When used with cab sims I sometimes actually like FM3's behavior better because it's a more "mix ready" sound but through an amp I like the others better.

I expect this might be what the Cygnus update helps with so I am looking forward to trying that out.

 

[maxdown]

The Cygnus update on the FM3 will be a good thing I'm sure ... I'm hanging off buying the FM3 until it's well bedded in so defo looking forward to hearing about it.