Dialing in sound with band and EQ

GibsonLesPaul

Experienced
After many years playing on tube stacks, getting the Axe gives me not only amazing amp and fx possibilities for a total new journey on guitarplaying, I also developed much more interest in working with EQ's because of those many possibilities in the Axe.

However EQ-ing and "Sitting right in the band-mix" is an area what can fill a full bookshelf on it's own in my opinion.
So I would be glad if any of you experienced users can give me some more tips, or nice readings, on dialing in your guitar into the band.
An "EQ thread for dummies" lol

I come from tube stack, thick and boomy sound. Pushing air and great tone....when I play alone. When the band comes in, a lot of that is gone and was searching my sound in the mix.
With the Axe and talking with some guys about it I cut the low and high frequencies on my global EQ, much better, more definition.
This sound is great in my (Grunge Rock band) but it can be even more balanced.
Also last friday I was on a jam, and during the "lighter" songs it was still too boomy/rocky call it whatever.

So the tips I get so far are varying between, dial your guitar so it has a "honky tonky" sound.
Put just a little notch up on 4K.
In a PEQ let the curve on the bass side roll off like a cliff, not smooth.
Etc, etc.

Do you get my point?
A total new area, but don't know where to begin, and on a way that I know what I do.
1 of my main concerns is, if I setup my sound like a thin, honky tonky mid sounding guitar, which could be perfect in the band mix. How do you guys do that when you play an only guitar intro?

Looking forward to your replies!

Maybe have to add I'm using Axe-FX II + Matrix SS Amp + FRFR Speaker
 
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I had the same thoughts as well on playing the guitar in areas on its own. Like an Intro. Should a different preset be used here with more low end?
For example, I played Whole lotta love recently and it sounded great in the mix but the intro guitar on its own sounded thin.
 
For me, it would depend on your performance style.

If you are using electric guitars with vol and tone controls and playing mostly rock, you can just use the guitars controls to lower the vol and or tone for intros / verse / chorus / solo etc. And maybe kick in a drive or what not for a solo too.

You could certainly make scenes for special parts of a song too. For me personally, I am used to adjusting at the guitar mostly so that's what I do. And think of the efx on and off like a traditional pedal board.
 
I know in a band mix, you are going to want to have more mids in there. A lot of folks mention how when they are playing alone with the mids out front, it sounds harsh but really in a band mix it will help you hear yourself.
 
In my latest band, we developed this method, and it works great so far.

1st everyone dials in the tone they want, including the drummer having his kit mic'd and EQ's how he wants it.
We then do some iso recordings of each instrument, load them into a DAW and with a spectrum analysis and PEQ make choices about who's cutting where.
Once you've spent a little time it's really cool for everyone to have the tone they love BUT still be able to cut through because there is no frequency war.
The biggest part of it though IMO is understanding what freq are a good sacrifice for your tone so you can create more space in the mix without losing your tone.
 
I have my band recorded without me and I adjust myself to the tracks.

Alone you want a fuller sound that us more appealing, live you need less bottom and need to find your little slice if the EQ pie.

Your guitar begins at 82hz and ends at 1300, keep that in mind.
 
I have my band recorded without me and I adjust myself to the tracks.

Alone you want a fuller sound that us more appealing, live you need less bottom and need to find your little slice if the EQ pie.

Your guitar begins at 82hz and ends at 1300, keep that in mind.


You're gonna want to out a high pass on the guitar. I do all my eq from our mixer it's a presonus. I put a high pass around 180hz on the channel to take away low end boom and find that the guitar sits in the mix better and doesnt interfere with vocals. Another slight dip at around 230hz and maybe a slight cut at around 6khz for a bit smoothness but that is my preference.
 
Alone you want a fuller sound that us more appealing, live you need less bottom and need to find your little slice if the EQ pie.
Totally this.


Your guitar begins at 82hz and ends at 1300, keep that in mind.
I wish it were that simple. :)

82 Hz to 1300 Hz is the range of the guitar's fundamental frequencies, but its overtones extend way beyond 1300. If you cut off everything above 1300 Hz, every guitar will sound dull, lifeless, and pretty much the same. At the other end of the spectrum, even your low E string, with its fundamental at 82 Hz, will have most of its energy above 150 Hz. That's why you can afford to trim off the lows to help you sit better in the mix.
 
I do believe you can get a nice guitar sound who also sits well in the mix.

Low cut is your friend: cut with the band playing, you will hear the guitar better. Raise the low cut until the guitar will sound weak, then back it a little.
If you do this right you will get a nice sound even for intros and stuff like that with an added bonus: when the bass will come in, it will add a lot of energy and fullness so your intro will be more dramatic ;)

To me the hi cut is another beast: you have to hi cut to leave space for cymbals, keyboards etc. BUT if you hi-cut too much controlled feedback will be too hard to master.
 
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I've found myself cutting 125 and 250hz about 1.5 db on the global this is where the boomyness happens for me. I boost 2k and 4k about the same for some extra cut, if this helps.
 
The most important part happens before any eq changes, and that is finding the right cab for your guitar/amp combination. If I'm not happy with the balance and punch of my live tones I usually go to the cab block first.
 
Great post. My last three gigs, I really nailed the EQ in context with the band. I kind of take a bit of a hap hazard manner to get a good EQ mix. As Sam mentioned, I get the amp and cab where I want. Right now I want the hot rodded Marshall tone so I use the Splawn 1st into the AX/TX cab mix. Then I set the EQ:

1. Amp Block - Bump the 500hz around 2 db and 4000hz around 3 db
2. PEQ at end of chain
a. High Pass Filter around 100-150hz
b. Low Pass Filter around 8000hz
c. 3-5 db boost at 750hz with Q of .35

Mind you this is mostly for my medium to high gain patches...my clean is totally different.

I also realize that boosting in the amp block combined with the PEQ may be overkill or somewhat counter-productive but it's all about what I hear. The PEQ is really huge IMO. The HPF takes the boominess out of the amp and the LPF helps to continue to focus the tonal energies in the mids by taming some of the real high sounds. It's almost inaudible but helps to smooth it out without it being muffled or losing presence.

Then the mid boost sounds killer at full band volumes...makes it sound big and meaty and ballsy. The 4k boost in the amp block helps with nice level of cut...it balances really well with the mid boost in the PEQ. Overall works for me and I play a PRS McCarty. With a strat or tele, this would probably be totally different.
 
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Guys : programming your sounds with the band together , does have 1 'little' problem for me......:

- I program my sounds so that I know that it sounds great through the FOH system and so that the audience will have great guitar sounds......> that means that my Guitars sound should sit well in the FOH mix which means that for example Drums are MIKED which sounds TOTALLY different than a ACOUSTIC drums on stage.......>

So that would give you a wrong image of your sound sitting well in a band mix.............even bass Guitars sound way heavier through the FOH than his own amps on stage.....

At least , i have experienced this way.....I might be totally wrong.....:)

- That is why I also like to program my sounds with Recorded Drums and bass..............
 
In my latest band, we developed this method, and it works great so far.

1st everyone dials in the tone they want, including the drummer having his kit mic'd and EQ's how he wants it.
We then do some iso recordings of each instrument, load them into a DAW and with a spectrum analysis and PEQ make choices about who's cutting where.
Once you've spent a little time it's really cool for everyone to have the tone they love BUT still be able to cut through because there is no frequency war.
The biggest part of it though IMO is understanding what freq are a good sacrifice for your tone so you can create more space in the mix without losing your tone.

Wow, I wished I lived in the "everybody is mic'd and individually dial-able" world. LOL
My band is all cabs, all air, no mics (except lead vocal). Pretty loud, raw & high energy, but very nearly impossible to approach using this technique - but I sure wish we could though!
 
The 2 biggest things I have learned with gigging with the Axe are:

1) More mids (and I now only use the amp and cab blocks block for this)
2) Less gain - just go on you tube to find some isolated guitar tracks from various recordings and be surprised at how little gain can be used (and my band is modern hard rock)
 
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