DI Style Bass with Axe-fx II Studio Compressor and Darkglass B7K!

Hey guys,

Not to knock the SVT sim, which I've had a lot of success with, but I decided that I would try to get a more modern "dirty" tone with my bass recording by going with a DI-style recording method. I set up 2 signal paths, one covering the lows (lowpassed at 300 Hz), and one fed through the effects loop into my Darkglass B7K, then through a filter (highpass at 400 Hz). These went to a mixer to help balance signal levels, and then to a studio compressor set up like an electro-optical compressor (LA-2A style), into a filter and GEQ, and then recorded. The mixing that was done afterward was pretty standard modern bass mixing practice and some saturation. The sound you're hearing is quite close to the original signal coming out of the Axe-fx II.

I haven't tried the SVT post-FW 11 beta, so I'll be giving it a shot again soon (this clip was recorded with FW 10.12).

Oh, and the B7K was set on the thin setting with the boost switch on. The blend was set at full blend, the level at full, and the drive at about 3 o'clock. The EQ knobs were all hovering somewhere around noon. This pedal seems to interact very precisely with the EQ, and I find that small changes make a pretty significant difference in the overall feel and sound of my bass.

 
as always, sounds great!!

I've not done a firmware update in some time...waiting until the next round of gigs settles down before diving in (hoping for an official f/w 11 to drop in the meantime). As you and many others have mentioned, having drive models of the Darkglass stuff (and other bass drives) would be a very nice addition.
 
Jim,

Thanks man! I am on FW beta 11, and I've got to say, the guitars sound absolutely huge so I'm interested to see how the SVT sim has improved. I'm thinking eventually I'll end up using a blend of DI for low, an amped signal for the mids, and another DI for the raw stuff. I haven't experimented with the axe-fx II drives since getting the B7K. It probably warrants some new investigating since the update. I think my biggest problem is that I'm having a hard time finding low end clarity with the IRs that I currently have (redwirez). It's like I'm almost there, but there's some weirdness going on I can't quite get control of. I'm wondering if with the FW 11 and maybe employing the cut function if I won't be happier. TO THE BAT MOBILE! :p

I keep crossing my fingers that one day Kevin at Ownhammer will shoot some new ones with his new technique, but it sounds like it will be a long time before that happens. As soon as he does though, I'll throw money at him like a desperate crack addict. I love his work that much.
 
Yeah, the new low cut has me interested also. I have to get on the stick and get myself a proper studio listening environment so I can do some of the complex routing things and audition them in a more meaningful way, as opposed to what I do primarily, which is gigging rather than recording. Both are really fun, but my space at home is limited. I do believe that when my name comes up for the CLRs, this will have to change! LOL
 
So I realized there were some issues with the audio, and lo and behold - a mono compressor managed to sneak it's way onto the overheads track (have no idea how it happened). FIXED!

 
Hot damn that's one dirty birdy bass. Sounds phenomenal! So my problem with bass in the Axe II is that I feel like it doesn't fill the spectrum enough. But clearly you can get a great bass sound out of it so I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Is there a particular pickup type you need to achieve a sound like that or is it just a matter of tweaking with the Axe?
 
Well, this isn't 100% Axe-fx II either. The B7K pulls much of the weight in terms of getting it that aggressive, full edge. That's why I REALLY WANT CLIFF TO MODEL THE DAMN THING! So that everyone can enjoy the awesomeness of it. But the magic for me was finding the right settings for a compressor so I could get a great DI sound. Then playing with upping the volume on the clean and using the mixer to balance it all. This bass line was also recorded with brand spanking new strings. The next thing you have to realize is that this is mixed following this formula:

Slate VTM
Linear Phase EQ
CLA-76
CLA-2A
Alloy 2 Limiter
Sknote Stripbus using shelf EQ to fatten it up after the saturation takes a little bit away.

Then it goes into the mastering stuff, so really - there's a lot to getting this to sound as fat and punchy as it is. It sounds good by itself, but it really comes alive once it's mixed.
 
The mix could be where I'm losing it but I wont know til I get home and tinker some more. You stick a limiter on the bass track? I haven't tried that yet.

This is the mix I'm working on currently. The bass is there but it feels lacking. I hear it but I don't feel it. And that's without shelving or cutting the lows. I may have to start from scratch in the Axe 2.



EDIT: I also should mention that I got the bass bussed to a saturation AUX track.
 
I just looked up that formulas there. I understand the VTM and EQ, but 3 comp/limiters?! I don't understand how that would work. Can you explain?
 
It's staged compression. I use the CLA-1176 to get the majority of the job done, getting about 3 db of gain reduction. The tone becomes more in your face and present, and you have to play with the attack and release until it sounds like it really sticks in the mix. The LA-2A is there to smooth things out a bit and catch whatever the 1176 didn't quite get, peak wise, so I set the gain reduction somewhere between 1-2 db. I also enjoy the way the LA-2A saturates the high mids and treble of the bass. It gives it chime while thickening the bass. The limiter is only used to catch the occasional percussive parts of the bass that make it's way through to peaking, causing it to be hard to sit right with the percussion. Consider that some dudes even pass the signal through a multiband compressor after the two stages of compression, before the limiter. This is the sound of super modern metal bass.

Probably the biggest help I've had mixing hard rock bass has been Ermin's "Systematic Mixing Guide", which can be purchased online. The dude knows his shit for sure, and it's full of awesome information.
 
$20 dollars for a book with awesome mixing skill? Sure I'm down. Thanks! I just updated to FW 11 beta so we'll see what happens with that :)
 
I thought I should jam back in here and also pass along a bass mixing tip I picked up along the way. Since I use parallel compression on my drums when mixing hard rock and metal, I sometimes find it beneficial to send a little bit of the bass track to the parallel compression bus. This helps it sit in with the drums, and adds some punch to the bass. A little bit goes a long way, so I usually add in just enough so that I can hear it changing the shape of the bass envelope. This can help create bass that you both hear and feel.
 
true enough, it's surprising how many tracks, parallel feeds, comps and limiters can be used to get a recorded bass to sit well in a mix. As a bassist, performing live on a stage, I'd obviously go for a more stripped down tone, but for metal I've used a front end comp, drive block (sometimes in parallel) into an amp model (SVT or other) , cab block, with the multiband comp and tape drive sim at the end. And that is for just a basic "core" tone that both grinds and punches. Recent firmware and better bass cab mix IRs have helped quite a bit IMO. The only thing I sometimes miss is my EL8 Distressor.
 
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