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DI Box to get better tones from the Axe-Fx

syndrone

New here
Hey there!

I have been thinking about this for a while. I must admit that I personally think that the DI from the Axe-Fx somehow doesn`t sound how I would like it to sound. I think it kinda lacks high and low end and is very prominent in the 2k area. This might be by design... I was at a friend and we A/B`d the Axe-Fx`s DI against a DI box DI and it sounded pretty different!

I would like to try out the following: Record with the Axe-Fx -> interface -> DAW, but at the same time record a DI signal by using the Output 2 -> Input 1 to get a copy out of the 2nd output of the Axe-Fx. I would like to route that copy into a DI Box (looking at the Countryman Type 85) to get a cleaner and "better" DI and record it into my DAW as well.
I would like to reamp later on using these Di`s in hopes of getting richer and better tones with the Axe-Fx.

Did anyone ever test this? Can anyone share their thoughts? Is there anything I am missing here (like gain stage/volume issues)? Please lert me know. Thanks!

Cheers!
 

chris

Legend!
Better than a pure signal already being recorded?

Why add something to your guitar that isn’t there?
 

syndrone

New here
Better than a pure signal already being recorded?

Why add something to your guitar that isn’t there?
I don`t feel like it is a pure signal. I feel like there is something being taken away in the low and high end and something being added in the 2k range.
The Axe-Fx sounded significantly different than DI boxes (which sounded more similar to each other). So the Axe-Fx`s DI stood out, but not in a pleasant way (to me!).
 

chris

Legend!
I don`t feel like it is a pure signal. I feel like there is something being taken away in the low and high end and something being added in the 2k range.
The Axe-Fx sounded significantly different than DI boxes (which sounded more similar to each other). So the Axe-Fx`s DI stood out, but not in a pleasant way (to me!).
I don’t feel anything is added or taken away. Most don’t feel this either. If I record the guitar with just shunts then play back the dry, it sounds exactly the same to me.

Make sure you don’t have any EQ in any recording bus.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
I don’t feel anything is added or taken away. Most don’t feel this either. If I record the guitar with just shunts then play back the dry, it sounds exactly the same to me.

Make sure you don’t have any EQ in any recording bus.
The Axe-Fx sounded significantly different than DI boxes (which sounded more similar to each other). So the Axe-Fx`s DI stood out, but not in a pleasant way (to me!).
Yeah... Make sure you don't have any EQ set on your Global EQs. That might explain why the DIs sound different than direct but similar to each other.
 

syndrone

New here
Thanks for your replies.

I am not talking about the DI being different during recording and the playback. I am talking about the DI being significantly different to various DI boxes we tried. Again: The DI boxes sounded very similar to each other so I don`t think the DI boxes are doing anything to the signal.

I have no EQ on anything. The DI of the DI box sounds way more balanced and WAY more crispy with sparkly high end. The Axe-Fx`s DI sounds darker and very focused in the 2k range (as I already stated). It`s a day and night difference. Again, no EQ on anything, no global EQ, both signals were just straight recordings of the guitar into the interface. I didn`t use any preamps on the interface, also they both used the same input channel.
I am not new to recording so I can guarantee there was no mistake during the process. :)

Also, I can provide soundsamples if needed so you can listen yourself. :)

Cheers!
 

deathsilver

Inspired
Thanks for your replies.

I am not talking about the DI being different during recording and the playback. I am talking about the DI being significantly different to various DI boxes we tried. Again: The DI boxes sounded very similar to each other so I don`t think the DI boxes are doing anything to the signal.

I have no EQ on anything. The DI of the DI box sounds way more balanced and WAY more crispy with sparkly high end. The Axe-Fx`s DI sounds darker and very focused in the 2k range (as I already stated). It`s a day and night difference. Again, no EQ on anything, no global EQ, both signals were just straight recordings of the guitar into the interface. I didn`t use any preamps on the interface, also they both used the same input channel.
I am not new to recording so I can guarantee there was no mistake during the process. :)

Also, I can provide soundsamples if needed so you can listen yourself. :)

Cheers!
Sound clips would be great.
 

pauly

Fractal Fanatic
Hi syndrone,
I’m not sure what you mean really, but if you want a really good di, get the nerve one. I have one and it’s the most transparent I have ever used.
Thanks
Pauly

Hey there!

I have been thinking about this for a while. I must admit that I personally think that the DI from the Axe-Fx somehow doesn`t sound how I would like it to sound. I think it kinda lacks high and low end and is very prominent in the 2k area. This might be by design... I was at a friend and we A/B`d the Axe-Fx`s DI against a DI box DI and it sounded pretty different!

I would like to try out the following: Record with the Axe-Fx -> interface -> DAW, but at the same time record a DI signal by using the Output 2 -> Input 1 to get a copy out of the 2nd output of the Axe-Fx. I would like to route that copy into a DI Box (looking at the Countryman Type 85) to get a cleaner and "better" DI and record it into my DAW as well.
I would like to reamp later on using these Di`s in hopes of getting richer and better tones with the Axe-Fx.

Did anyone ever test this? Can anyone share their thoughts? Is there anything I am missing here (like gain stage/volume issues)? Please lert me know. Thanks!

Cheers!
 

syndrone

New here
Alright, here are two soundsamples:

Axe Fx DI:



DI Box:




Watch out that you don`t get to one of my other tracks as they are super loud compared to the DI ;)

Honestly, I do not like either of the DIs haha!
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Here's a better one:



A passive DI box is just a transformer. It's going to transform the load impedance by the impedance ratio. A typical DI box has an impedance ratio of 100:1. A typical mic preamp input impedance is 2K. That means the pickups are seeing a 200K load (green trace). The Axe-Fx presents a 1M load (orange trace).

The moral of the story:
 

syndrone

New here
Hey!

Thanks for the insight. That`s interesting! I have to admit it`s also a little bit complicated for a tech noob like me but I think I understood it.

So that means that the impedance has a very big impact on how the guitar/DI sounds. That`s kinda cool!
This also means that I`m actually right with the difference being there. :p

Now, just to be clear, I never said that the Axe-Fx sounds bad or anything, but I think the DI has this 2k-5k peak harshness that I absolutely do not like and have to EQ out all the time. And it`s a hassle! A simple EQ before the amp just doesn`t do it and it`s also not the same I guess.
So I thought that if the DI is more balanced ("balanced"... maybe more flattened is the better term :)) I would have a less focused tone in this area thus leading to a more pleasing overall tone (to my ears). Isn`t that possible to a certain degree? Or would a flat responsee end up sounding muddy and unclear?

I`d like to add that a "true sound of the pickups/guitar" is maybe good in theory, but maybe not always in practice! haha
 

chris

Legend!
Hey!

Thanks for the insight. That`s interesting! I have to admit it`s also a little bit complicated for a tech noob like me but I think I understood it.

So that means that the impedance has a very big impact on how the guitar/DI sounds. That`s kinda cool!
This also means that I`m actually right with the difference being there. :p

Now, just to be clear, I never said that the Axe-Fx sounds bad or anything, but I think the DI has this 2k-5k peak harshness that I absolutely do not like and have to EQ out all the time. And it`s a hassle! A simple EQ before the amp just doesn`t do it and it`s also not the same I guess.
So I thought that if the DI is more balanced ("balanced"... maybe more flattened is the better term :)) I would have a less focused tone in this area thus leading to a more pleasing overall tone (to my ears). Isn`t that possible to a certain degree? Or would a flat responsee end up sounding muddy and unclear?

I`d like to add that a "true sound of the pickups/guitar" is maybe good in theory, but maybe not always in practice! haha
It means you don’t like what your guitar naturally sounds like.

It’s all up to you. We can’t make the decision.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Hey!

Thanks for the insight. That`s interesting! I have to admit it`s also a little bit complicated for a tech noob like me but I think I understood it.

So that means that the impedance has a very big impact on how the guitar/DI sounds. That`s kinda cool!
This also means that I`m actually right with the difference being there. :p

Now, just to be clear, I never said that the Axe-Fx sounds bad or anything, but I think the DI has this 2k-5k peak harshness that I absolutely do not like and have to EQ out all the time. And it`s a hassle! A simple EQ before the amp just doesn`t do it and it`s also not the same I guess.
So I thought that if the DI is more balanced ("balanced"... maybe more flattened is the better term :)) I would have a less focused tone in this area thus leading to a more pleasing overall tone (to my ears). Isn`t that possible to a certain degree? Or would a flat responsee end up sounding muddy and unclear?

I`d like to add that a "true sound of the pickups/guitar" is maybe good in theory, but maybe not always in practice! haha
You can use the Input Impedance control to lower the input impedance and flatten the response. Try 220K, that will be close to your passive DI.

The Axe-Fx is more ACCURATELY capturing the sound of your pickups. If you don't like the sound then you have a couple choices:
1. Change your pickups.
2. Reduce the load on your pickups. You can do this using the Input Impedance control or with an external device like a Radial Dragster.
 
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syndrone

New here
You can use the Input Impedance control to lower the input impedance and flatten the response. Try 220K, that will be close to your passive DI.

The Axe-Fx is more ACCURATELY capturing the sound of your pickups. If you don't like the sound then you have a couple choices:
1. Change your pickups.
2. Reduce the load on your pickups. You can do this using the Input Impedance control or with an external device like a Radial Dragster.
Awesome, that`s the response people are looking for in a forum. Thanks a bunch!! :) I will definitely try that.
 
@syndrone

Let us know whether the Input Impedance control does what you want.

Do people want the DI for reamping, or for the actual sound of the DI ?
I bet it's for reamping.
So IMO, the question is whether there's a standard AxeFx reamping procedure, and whether it works.
"Works" means that reamping gives the same sound (in two steps) as normally recording the AxeFx (in one step).
 
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