Detuning with the Pitch Block working poorly?

[MisterE]

I can understand latency for calculating the note when an intelligent harmonizer is used.
But for detune or fixed pitch shift?
I thought this just involved a multiplication of the frequency or am I seeing this wrong?

 

[bdrepko]

I have a tip not related to settings.
Monitor with something so that your guitar strings are not audible. I see you had success with the Waves product. I still think this monitoring trick is worth a try. When I am in my music room playing thru studio monitors...I have the problem you describe. When I put my in ear monitors in...or if I am playing with my band at a loud volume I can't hear the weirdness either. I do have the slight latency the others mentioned tho.

I have seen complaints against Digitech's "The Drop" pedal because at low volumes it sounded horrible because you could hear the guitar acoustically in standard and the detuned version at the same time.

 

[Birdy]

Have you checked this:
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Pitch_block#Dropped_tuning

Yes I did, that's already how I tune my block.

I have a tip not related to settings.
Monitor with something so that your guitar strings are not audible. I see you had success with the Waves product. I still think this monitoring trick is worth a try. When I am in my music room playing thru studio monitors...I have the problem you describe. When I put my in ear monitors in...or if I am playing with my band at a loud volume I can't hear the weirdness either. I do have the slight latency the others mentioned tho.

I am aware of that, that's not the problem in my case.

Are you trying to play monophonic or polyphonically ? Ie; single notes or full chords ?

Both have the same problem.

What algorithm are you using? Silly question I know but it does matter. I use the fixed harmonizer. Settings down 1 step mix 100% (there is two harmonizers so make sure the other is at 0% mix, and set it to local. The latency is extremely low and not noticeable when playing with others.

I already said in the original post that I'm using the fixed harmony.

I have seen complaints against Digitech's "The Drop" pedal because at low volumes it sounded horrible because you could hear the guitar acoustically in standard and the detuned version at the same time.

It happens with every way of down tuning.

 

[Callan]

I have seen complaints against Digitech's "The Drop" pedal because at low volumes it sounded horrible because you could hear the guitar acoustically in standard and the detuned version at the same time.

That's true for every pedal, plugin, modeller, etc., Not just the drop.

If you can hear the acoustic strings, you have 4 options.
1/ turn up your amp.
2/ use headphones/IEM, etc.
3/ tune your guitar down/up (capo?) and turn off the pedal.
4/ put up with a weird, off key harmony

I use the drop and find out very useful live, but if you're playing quietly at home then it's really off putting to hear both the original and processed signals. (I find it gets worse as you go higher up the neck, but maybe that's just me).

 

[Bodde]

It seems like this has been a complaint for many years. Many people say the Digitech Drop pedal works much better.

Never owned the Drop but you are right this kind of topic shows up every few months or so.

 

[TieDyedDevil]

When you need the PITCH block at its best performance, set SOURCE to: LOCAL. It gets more CPU time that way.

Huh... I didn't know that.

I tried this on my Hammond patch (two pitch blocks w/ some other stuff) and it made a noticeable improvement in how well the PIT blocks track chords.

Thanks!

 

[bdrepko]

Yes I did, that's already how I tune my block.


I am aware of that, that's not the problem in my case.


Both have the same problem.


I already said in the original post that I'm using the fixed harmony.


It happens with every way of down tuning.

I know. I find it hilarious that people complain about this.

 

[bdrepko]

That's true for every pedal, plugin, modeller, etc., Not just the drop.

If you can hear the acoustic strings, you have 4 options.
1/ turn up your amp.
2/ use headphones/IEM, etc.
3/ tune your guitar down/up (capo?) and turn off the pedal.
4/ put up with a weird, off key harmony

I use the drop and find out very useful live, but if you're playing quietly at home then it's really off putting to hear both the original and processed signals. (I find it gets worse as you go higher up the neck, but maybe that's just me).

I find it hilarious that people complain about this. Of course you are going to hear both at low volumes.

 

[Callan]

I find it hilarious that people complain about this. Of course you are going to hear both at low volumes.

In hindsight, there is a 5th option - blame the technology...

 

[Deadpool_25]

I'm not saying the Digitech Drop is better, but with all the discussion and the complaints, I got the Drop, put it before the FX8 and couldn't be happier. It wasn't that expensive, does exactly what it's supposed to, is insanely simple, and has so little latency as to be insignificant. It also incurs zero CPU load. /shrug

 

[slinky005]

I'm not saying the Digitech Drop is better, but with all the discussion and the complaints, I got the Drop, put it before the FX8 and couldn't be happier. It wasn't that expensive, does exactly what it's supposed to, is insanely simple, and has so little latency as to be insignificant. It also incurs zero CPU load. /shrug

How does it affect the quality of the sound?

 

[Danny Danzi]

Birdy, I asked this on my first post....but I'll try once more. Can you share a patch, some screen shots or heck, give me an MP3 of what your sound is doing?

I sat here reading this thread trying everything I could to get a doubling sound. I can't make mine even come close to a doubled sound unless I turn tracking off. I get the same results with poly, mono, global, local and I'm using several patches that tune down a half and up a half. My clean sound works well, I have delay and chorus off/on.....no artifacts for me other than a little latency that is easy to handle.

I even have a patch where I use two pitch blocks...one for the actual down tune, the other giving me an octave down of that. I'm not getting any quality issues or anything that would make me feel the sound isn't useable. I'm going to create a little video of me playing and showing the patches so you can see and hear for yourself.

I play in a Van Halen tribute band on the side, so I've worked hard at my sounds and I can't let too much latency or a synthetic doubling artifact get in the way. I'd totally kill the idea of using the pitch block in this manner if that was the case. We gotta be missing something obvious with you and your setup.

I'd really like to try and help you if I can. I must confess though, I'm hoping you don't show me something I haven't been able to hear. Lol! I got really good ears man....I get paid for my ears....preferably when they get used as handlebars as I'm a prostitute by night...but hey, we gotta make a living.

Seriously though...let's try and sort this out. Post up a clip showing me what your issues are. I sure can't reproduce them on this end so far.

 

[Moke]

Same here, I use it in a bunch of tunes at every show for lots of different things..... 12-string sims, Fixed and intelligent Harmonies, Detuning, Organ sims, and Drop tuning - 1/2 & whole steps and 1 octave down (Bass solo in 'Stranglehold)

 

[MisterE]

I don't think you need a clip or sceenshot to understand that a latency of 18ms is a bit too much.
Or am I seeing things wrong here?
Again, I can understand some latency when computing the note value is concerned but for detune or a fixed harmony, only a multiplication of the frequency is involved and this should cause hardly any latency. Certainly not 18ms

 

[Moke]

I don't think you need a clip or sceenshot to understand that a latency of 18ms is a bit too much.
Or am I seeing things wrong here?
Again, I can understand some latency when computing the note value is concerned but for detune or a fixed harmony, only a multiplication of the frequency is involved and this should cause hardly any latency. Certainly not 18ms

The screenshots or clip would help figure out why you (and some others) are experiencing such a large latency? As I, and some others are not?

 

[Birdy]

I don't think you need a clip or sceenshot to understand that a latency of 18ms is a bit too much.
Or am I seeing things wrong here?
Again, I can understand some latency when computing the note value is concerned but for detune or a fixed harmony, only a multiplication of the frequency is involved and this should cause hardly any latency. Certainly not 18ms

He was talking to me and my sound issue, I don't have latency issues.

 

[Birdy]

Birdy, I asked this on my first post....but I'll try once more. Can you share a patch, some screen shots or heck, give me an MP3 of what your sound is doing?

I sat here reading this thread trying everything I could to get a doubling sound. I can't make mine even come close to a doubled sound unless I turn tracking off. I get the same results with poly, mono, global, local and I'm using several patches that tune down a half and up a half. My clean sound works well, I have delay and chorus off/on.....no artifacts for me other than a little latency that is easy to handle.

I even have a patch where I use two pitch blocks...one for the actual down tune, the other giving me an octave down of that. I'm not getting any quality issues or anything that would make me feel the sound isn't useable. I'm going to create a little video of me playing and showing the patches so you can see and hear for yourself.

I play in a Van Halen tribute band on the side, so I've worked hard at my sounds and I can't let too much latency or a synthetic doubling artifact get in the way. I'd totally kill the idea of using the pitch block in this manner if that was the case. We gotta be missing something obvious with you and your setup.

I'd really like to try and help you if I can. I must confess though, I'm hoping you don't show me something I haven't been able to hear. Lol! I got really good ears man....I get paid for my ears....preferably when they get used as handlebars as I'm a prostitute by night...but hey, we gotta make a living.

Seriously though...let's try and sort this out. Post up a clip showing me what your issues are. I sure can't reproduce them on this end so far.

Well, I sat down to record a clip and upload my preset, and suddenly it works well with no problems!
I did record the issues I had a few days ago, but since now it's working fine I won't bother finding and uploading them.
I will do it though if this problem returns.

 

[yek]

detune or a fixed harmony, only a multiplication of the frequency is involved and this should cause hardly any latency. Certainly not 18ms

Detune as in "dropped tuning"? Polyphonic dropped pitch is very hard to accomplish and always causes latency.

Fixed harmony is very fast. Just check the (new) Owner of a lonely heart factory preset.

 

[Deadpool_25]

How does it affect the quality of the sound?

I honestly can't tell a significant difference. And that's sitting at home in a quiet environment. No way you could tell a difference in a band situation. Well....IMO of course.

 

[bdrepko]

How does it affect the quality of the sound?

Less than any other I have heard so far. It sounds really good for detune a half down to E flat. There are a few tunes my band is doing now that we drop to D. It is still decent but quality starts to degrade more.