Delays Sounding Too Reverbery

[mr_fender]

Are you using diffusion in the delay block?

 

[Dave Merrill]

^^^ this.

 

[unix-guy]

Yes, for reverb in series (50% mix @ 0% Input Gain @ +3db level = Dry-Thru), but I was referring to delay in series (50% mix @ 0% Input Gain @ 0 db level = Dry-Thru). Then, as input gain is increased with block active, output volume goes gradually up/down compared to dry-thru depending on block settings

Cool... I wasn't sure if you were talking about Reverb or Delay.

 

[sprint]

Are you using diffusion in the delay block?

No - diffusion at 0

 

[unix-guy]

Which delay types have you been using?

 

[sprint]

what cab are you using? if it is ported you might be hearing the sound of the delays reflecting off the back of the cab and coming out the port

yes - FR Cabs and Closed backs are ported - so that may be something - will try taking front panels off the FR cabs and stuffing a sock in.

 

[pauly]

Hi @sprint

I just turn the feedback down, and/or extend the time.

Thanks
Pauly

Does anyone else struggle with delays sounding too much like reverb? If yes, what adjustments do you make?

Strange question maybe as I guess delay is reverb in some respects, but here's the detail:

• I don't tend to like much reverb - just a tiny bit is usually good for me, or none at all.
• I do like big delays though, to help create a more sustained sound particularly on lead tones (ie 500ms at a lowish reedback & 15-20% mix in series).
• the trouble I have is that, on real cabs (particularly open back), and on FRLR cabs, but not so much on studio monitors, I'm losing a lot of "presence" in my delayed tones - as if I also have a big reverb turned on when I don't.

I'm not much of a delay tweaker so I think I'm just not adjusting things correctly. I've had some success in combating this by adjusting delay tone shaping to get the delayed tone more equal to the original but I still hear it. I've also tinkered with ducking.

Also not sure why I hear this so much more with real cabs - in fact, with real cabs, all the fx seem to pop more than on the 2 different pairs of studio monitors I have. With my real cabs, fx mix tends to generally need to be lower.

Anyway - feedback welcomed on how you go about dialing in a sustaining delay tone while keeping the core tone present and not having it sound like a big reverb if that makes sense.

 

[sprint]

Which delay types have you been using?

been switching around but here's the latest ones in a simplified patch - cabs are also changed from 3rd pty (Mikko) to stock but you can see how I route delay / reverb. I think my delay reverb ratio and mix levels need to be much different on my real cabs especially the FR cabs (compared to studio monitor) - I'll try n get some clips together.

 

[Rex]

been switching around but here's the latest ones in a simplified patch - cabs are also changed from 3rd pty (Mikko) to stock but you can see how I route delay / reverb. I think my delay reverb ratio and mix levels need to be much different on my real cabs especially the FR cabs (compared to studio monitor) - I'll try n get some clips together.

Yes, clips would defiinitely help. Your preset sounded very reverb-y — until I bypassed the Reverb block.

 

[Moke]

Is this any better? It loaded on the scene 3, so I only messed with that one.

 

[Tonedeaf]

It would be great to be able to get a delay to sound just like reverb. Think of the CPU savings.

 

[sprint]

So here are 3 clips each separately re-amp'd from the attached DI into the attached preset (chords thru scene 2, single notes thru scene 3). Reverb is turned off, and the delay is config'd to mono as per Chris' suggestion above (+I've also removed modulation from the delay). Clip1 is direct, clip 2 is mic'd Studio Monitor with a cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center, clip 3 is mic'd FR Cab with same cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center. Guitar is Carvin DC127 using C22 Bridge pup / standard tuning. No other EQing other than making the Direct clip a bit quieter to better match the volume of the other 2. Sorry for crappy playing.

So - does anything sound overly reverbery to anybody? I have a clue as to what's happening but I'll wait for any other thoughts before blabbing on further.

 

[mr_fender]

Other than the FRFR sound being darker, it sounds like a normal delay tone to me. Not hearing any excessive reverb at all.

 

[mr_fender]

It would be great to be able to get a delay to sound just like reverb. Think of the CPU savings.

Turn up diffusion.

 

[Rock Chalk]

So here are 3 clips each separately re-amp'd from the attached DI into the attached preset (chords thru scene 2, single notes thru scene 3). Reverb is turned off, and the delay is config'd to mono as per Chris' suggestion above (+I've also removed modulation from the delay). Clip1 is direct, clip 2 is mic'd Studio Monitor with a cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center, clip 3 is mic'd FR Cab with same cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center. Guitar is Carvin DC127 using C22 Bridge pup / standard tuning. No other EQing other than making the Direct clip a bit quieter to better match the volume of the other 2. Sorry for crappy playing.

So - does anything sound overly reverbery to anybody? I have a clue as to what's happening but I'll wait for any other thoughts before blabbing on further.

They all sound great to me.......Not reverbery. I like the first one the best though.

 

[sprint]

Other than the FRFR sound being darker, it sounds like a normal delay tone to me. Not hearing any excessive reverb at all.

I didn't hear much in any of the clips either - But I still hear it sitting here playing in front of the FRCabs, though less than before now using mono delay - so my best guess now is that what I'm hearing is reflections from my own room that would not be picked up by the mic I used in clips 2/3 above as it is not sensitive to anything more than a foot or two away. Also these different cab types I have are facing in different directions around me, and are at varying heights so the room reflections answer would fit. I've tried treating my assigned mancave corner with cheap foam absorbers but I'm not sure they are doing much to combat some largish aluminim ducts passing above.

Anyway, I'm going with that for now - thanks all for the feedback throughout this adventure.

 

[chris]

So here are 3 clips each separately re-amp'd from the attached DI into the attached preset (chords thru scene 2, single notes thru scene 3). Reverb is turned off, and the delay is config'd to mono as per Chris' suggestion above (+I've also removed modulation from the delay). Clip1 is direct, clip 2 is mic'd Studio Monitor with a cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center, clip 3 is mic'd FR Cab with same cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center. Guitar is Carvin DC127 using C22 Bridge pup / standard tuning. No other EQing other than making the Direct clip a bit quieter to better match the volume of the other 2. Sorry for crappy playing.

So - does anything sound overly reverbery to anybody? I have a clue as to what's happening but I'll wait for any other thoughts before blabbing on further.

it doesn't sound like reverb.

what's happening is you're playing long notes, so the delay is repeating those long notes. so it sounds like an extended "sound" which is what reverb can sound like.

delay on rhythm parts can do this because rhythm usually has longer notes/chords like you played.

delay on solos sound different because there are typically shorter notes for runs or scales, and the occasional held note at ends of phrases (of course solos can just be long notes too).

so this isn't like reverb at all to me, but the delay is repeating exactly what's being played: long notes/chords. when you stop playing the guitar, in your mind, you may be thinking "ok the notes should stop" but the delay is just holding those long notes after you stop.

you may want to reduce the delay time so it isn't "recording" the long notes for as long, and it will sound more bouncy. or you could use the Ducking feature so while playing the delay is quiet, then when you stop playing, it fades in and appears.

 

[unix-guy]

It would be great to be able to get a delay to sound just like reverb. Think of the CPU savings.

But to do that, it would need to have the same algorithms as the Reverb, and thus would be a Reverb and consume the same CPU

 

[Rex]

So here are 3 clips each separately re-amp'd from the attached DI into the attached preset (chords thru scene 2, single notes thru scene 3). Reverb is turned off, and the delay is config'd to mono as per Chris' suggestion above (+I've also removed modulation from the delay). Clip1 is direct, clip 2 is mic'd Studio Monitor with a cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center, clip 3 is mic'd FR Cab with same cheapy reference mic @ 8" pointed to center. Guitar is Carvin DC127 using C22 Bridge pup / standard tuning. No other EQing other than making the Direct clip a bit quieter to better match the volume of the other 2. Sorry for crappy playing.

So - does anything sound overly reverbery to anybody? I have a clue as to what's happening but I'll wait for any other thoughts before blabbing on further.

Thanks for the clips.

I don't hear any one of the three clips sounding more reverbish than any other clip. The cab clip is voiced very differently from the other two, but voicing is an EQ thing, not a reverb thing.


With the cab setup, play a single muted staccato note, and then stop. Do you hear a reverb tail?

 

[sprint]

it doesn't sound like reverb.

what's happening is you're playing long notes, so the delay is repeating those long notes. so it sounds like an extended "sound" which is what reverb can sound like.

delay on rhythm parts can do this because rhythm usually has longer notes/chords like you played.

delay on solos sound different because there are typically shorter notes for runs or scales, and the occasional held note at ends of phrases (of course solos can just be long notes too).

so this isn't like reverb at all to me, but the delay is repeating exactly what's being played: long notes/chords. when you stop playing the guitar, in your mind, you may be thinking "ok the notes should stop" but the delay is just holding those long notes after you stop.

you may want to reduce the delay time so it isn't "recording" the long notes for as long, and it will sound more bouncy. or you could use the Ducking feature so while playing the delay is quiet, then when you stop playing, it fades in and appears.

Def a factor I think - when I switched to the mono digital delay I also reduced the mix a bit and perceived this a bit less using the FRCabs which seem to accentuate it. I'll also try reducing delay times as you suggest (and try to curb my addiction to too much stereo fx).

Thanks for the great feedback.