Delays and stereo spread, what's the deal?

W

wembley

Inspired
Using Stereo or Ping Pong Delay, I can't seem to achieve any stereo spread effect, even though spread is at 100%...? In fact, adjusting the spread value from 100 to 0% does nothing with the stereo image. Also, I thought the deal with Ping Pong was exactly what the table tennis connotations gives you - a delay jumping from one side to the other, but it just stays in the middle of the stereo image.

The dly is positioned as the last but one block in the chain, before reverb.
 
wembley said:
Using Stereo or Ping Pong Delay, I can't seem to achieve any stereo spread effect, even though spread is at 100%...? In fact, adjusting the spread value from 100 to 0% does nothing with the stereo image. Also, I thought the deal with Ping Pong was exactly what the table tennis connotations gives you - a delay jumping from one side to the other, but it just stays in the middle of the stereo image.

The dly is positioned as the last but one block in the chain, before reverb.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you output is not set to mono? What is the axe-fx going into?
 
It goes to my Focusrite soundcard, stereo out and stereo in. I have audible stereo separation for the patches where I use different cabs and/or amps that I pan to each side.
 
wembley said:
It goes to my Focusrite soundcard, stereo out and stereo in. I have audible stereo separation for the patches where I use different cabs and/or amps that I pan to each side.
Click to expand...

can you post a patch? What is your ratio on the stereo delay set at?

It sounds like you signal is being collapsed to mono somehow. Ping-pong should be doing what you expect .

Try this use a mono delay, turn on phase reverse. Do you hear a delay?
 
Yup, but I'm away from the system now.

However, as I hear stereo from reverbs and two amps being panned to each side, I gather there's a setting I've missed, or that I must lower my expectations to stereo and ping pong delays in the axe :)
 
wembley said:
Yup, but I'm away from the system now.

However, as I hear stereo from reverbs and two amps being panned to each side, I gather there's a setting I've missed, or that I must lower my expectations to stereo and ping pong delays in the axe :)
Click to expand...

The reverb is not a stereo effect. It will pass a dry stereo signal, but it is not a stereo effect. No, you have something set wrong. the stereo delays and ping pong work fine in the Axe-fx. Whether, you can hear panning and stereo effect in one preset does not mean that in another something is collapsing the stereo field.
 
There's several presets that use pingpong delay - try to find one of those and see if it works. If so, see what the difference is in your settings, or easier yet, just copy it and tweak to your liking.
 
Sure, you're absolutely right, somewhere between using it live into the FOH system and connecting it to my brand new sound card at home, I forgot to check the panning in the software mixer, which was set at noon for both channels. Everythings working just nicely, thanks for the replies!
 
javajunkie said:
wembley said:
Yup, but I'm away from the system now.

However, as I hear stereo from reverbs and two amps being panned to each side, I gather there's a setting I've missed, or that I must lower my expectations to stereo and ping pong delays in the axe :)
Click to expand...

The reverb is not a stereo effect. It will pass a dry stereo signal, but it is not a stereo effect. No, you have something set wrong. the stereo delays and ping pong work fine in the Axe-fx. Whether, you can hear panning and stereo effect in one preset does not mean that in another something is collapsing the stereo field.
Click to expand...
The reverb is not stereo? Why not? Is that why my Roctron Prophesy's reverbs sound bigger? I thought it was just a problem with the way I was adjusting them. Even my old GSP's had stereo reverbs. What's the deal?
 
FractalAudio said:
The reverb is stereo.
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What I was saying is that it maintains a stereo signal on the dry but the manual shows it collapses the input effect in mono (so not stereo in). If you pan the signal hard to one side go 100% mix. The stereo field will not be maintained. It collapses to mono. Turning the pan back to center just increases volume.
 
The reverb is mono in, stereo out. The sound field created is stereo. 99% of reverbs work this way. If you need true stereo (which most people don't) you can use two reverb blocks in parallel. The BAL control on all blocks simply controls the L/R balance of the output of the block and is unrelated to the MIX.
 
FractalAudio said:
The reverb is mono in, stereo out. The sound field created is stereo. 99% of reverbs work this way. If you need true stereo (which most people don't) you can use two reverb blocks in parallel. The BAL control on all blocks simply controls the L/R balance of the output of the block and is unrelated to the MIX.
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Absolutely, but it is important to know especially if you are trying to maintain a stereo field and you running into issues (this would only really show up at high mix values). You are right most rack mount reverbs work this way.

The GSP21xx series had a couple of true stereo reverb and the prophesy has a dual mode that does this. The Eclipse's reverb are all true stereo. Many Lexicon units like the lower end mpx 550 to their mid to upper end stuff. But like you said you can use 2 reverb blocks if needed. I think I have used that in one situation only. I can't remember why now, but it is why I looked.

With the hard pan. I wasn't talking about the balance control. I was talking about putting a pan block before the reverb thereby confirming to myself the reverb was mono in.

I have to say, you can get absolutely huge reverb out of the Axe-fx. If the reverb alone is not enough then adding multi-delay to the mix puts it over the top.

These sounds plenty big to me:
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/poyn_intro.mp3
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/pcm70.mp3
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/megaverb.mp3

the megaverb was done on 4.0 firmware

http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/swelldiff.mp3
 
kabong said:
javajunkie said:
wembley said:
Yup, but I'm away from the system now.

However, as I hear stereo from reverbs and two amps being panned to each side, I gather there's a setting I've missed, or that I must lower my expectations to stereo and ping pong delays in the axe :)
Click to expand...

The reverb is not a stereo effect. It will pass a dry stereo signal, but it is not a stereo effect. No, you have something set wrong. the stereo delays and ping pong work fine in the Axe-fx. Whether, you can hear panning and stereo effect in one preset does not mean that in another something is collapsing the stereo field.
Click to expand...
The reverb is not stereo? Why not? Is that why my Roctron Prophesy's reverbs sound bigger? I thought it was just a problem with the way I was adjusting them. Even my old GSP's had stereo reverbs. What's the deal?
Click to expand...

Which reverbs are you trying to get. I have an intellifex which I found out has the same reverb algorithms. So which reverb setting are you using on the Prophesy?
 
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