Wish Delays and Reverbs level controls

[DLC86]

Make all level controls pre-effect rather than post (basically like the input gain control), this would allow smooth transitions between different settings.
I'm talking about the various levels inside the blocks and not the main level knob (Head 1-4 level, L-R level, earley/late reflections level, etc..)

Example 1: you need 4 different delay times during a song with spillover?
Use a quad tape delay and set 4 channels identically except for the 4 heads levels, turning up one head level for each channel.
If you do this now, as soon as you change channel the previous active delay line would be instantly muted and the current line would immediately start repeating previously played notes, and to achieve real spillover you'd need 4 delay blocks.

Example 2: you want a reverb with just some early reflections to give some ambience to your rhythm tone but you also want a long washy tail for your solo, and all of this with spillover?
Setup 2 channels where you have the late reflections level turned down in one and turned up in the other.
Again, if you do this now you'd get abrupt changes and would need 2 reverb blocks for a smooth transition.

 

[GiRa]

Awesome idea. I have been doing workarounds to achieve this since the Ultra days I think.

 

[Smilzo]

Some people need istant muted, some trail. I think a win win solution could be both input and output internal level (Head 1-4 input level, Head 1-4 output level...)

 

[DLC86]

Some people need istant muted, some trail. I think a win win solution could be both input and output internal level (Head 1-4 input level, Head 1-4 output level...)

If you need an instantaneous change you can always change channel using the same head.. or am I missing something?

 

[Smilzo]

I thought you asked for different behaviour... always trail on.

 

[DLC86]

I thought you asked for different behaviour... always trail on.

Nope, I just asked to move the level controls to the input of the delay line/reverb engine rather than the output.
In this case if you vary the delay time the change is still instantaneous, and if you want to mute it completely there's still bypass mode available

 

[yeky83]

Great idea! Would be especially useful for the FM3!

 

[Smittefar]

Both delays and reverbs have an input gain control. How is this not what you wish for?

 

[DLC86]

Both delays and reverbs have an input gain control. How is this not what you wish for?

Well, read again the first post and you'll hopefully have your answer

 

[DLC86]

After some tests I realized that the quad tape wouldn't really work for example 1 cuz the 4 taps all come from a single delay line with a common feedback path, but that example would definitely work with the quad parallel type (or dual and stereo delays in the normal delay block).
Having pre-effect levels in all types would be useful anyway even if perfect spillover is not achievable.

 

[Smittefar]

It sounds like a case, where I would just tie a scene controller to in gain or in example two the late reflections

 

[Smilzo]

Nope, I just asked to move the level controls to the input of the delay line/reverb engine rather than the output.
In this case if you vary the delay time the change is still instantaneous, and if you want to mute it completely there's still bypass mode available

You lost me.

 

[DLC86]

It sounds like a case, where I would just tie a scene controller to in gain or in example two the late reflections

How do you achieve 4 different delay times using input gain or trails using the current late reflections level?

 

[DLC86]

You lost me.

If you have, for example, a delay time of 300ms in channel A and the same delay set to 500ms in channel B, when you switch from A to B the change will be immediate no matter where the level are placed or set.

If you have a 300ms delay in channel A and the same 300ms delay in channel B but you want to instantaneously change the delay level when switching channels, just set the main level or mix knob differently between the two channels

 

[Smilzo]

Now you talk about "time", not level. That confuse me (title say level).
If you have a 300ms you will hear the delay after 300ms (or any tap)... 500ms after 500ms... it can't be istant if it's delay!
If you talk about "how set delay time" there are 2 ways (think of a real tape): one way is same tape lenght, change motor speed. The second way is the same speed, change tape lenght.
First way warp the pitch of recorded material. Second maintain pitch but add "silence" or "cut" material.
The way the signal trail is NOT time or speed, but erase head and/or mix rec and play head levels.

I don't know which algo use reverb.
If you share some clip (made in DAW) maybe I can understand what you wish to acheive.

 

[DLC86]

Now you talk about "time", not level. That confuse me (title say level).
If you have a 300ms you will hear the delay after 300ms (or any tap)... 500ms after 500ms... it can't be istant if it's delay!
If you talk about "how set delay time" there are 2 ways (think of a real tape): one way is same tape lenght, change motor speed. The second way is the same speed, change tape lenght.
First way warp the pitch of recorded material. Second maintain pitch but add "silence" or "cut" material.
The way the signal trail is NOT time or speed, but erase head and/or mix rec and play head levels.

I don't know which algo use reverb.
If you share some clip (made in DAW) maybe I can understand what you wish to acheive.

What I wish to achieve is pretty clearly explained in the first post and it's about pre vs post level controls.

This discussion arised due to your legitimate critic here:

Some people need istant muted, some trail. I think a win win solution could be both input and output internal level (Head 1-4 input level, Head 1-4 output level..

I was just trying to say that in the vast majority of use cases, instantly muting or changing delay without trails is feasible even if the level controls are pre-effect.
Can you provide an example where you absolutely need post-effect levels?

PS: 2 italiani che discutono in inglese mi sa che non è lo scenario migliore per comprendersi

 

[Smilzo]

What I wish to achieve is pretty clearly explained in the first post and it's about pre vs post level controls.

This discussion arised due to your legitimate critic here:

I was just trying to say that in the vast majority of use cases, instantly muting or changing delay without trails is feasible even if the level controls are pre-effect.
Can you provide an example where you absolutely need post-effect levels?

PS: 2 italiani che discutono in inglese mi sa che non è lo scenario migliore per comprendersi

Non ho capito cosa vorresti dal primo post. I don't get it.

Post effect to me is the rule, trail is the exception. Every time I change scene or patch I don't want the delay (or reverb) to trail. Except when I want it. In a live setting. In a record, I can make whatever I want...

 

[DLC86]

Non ho capito cosa vorresti dal primo post. I don't get it.

Post effect to me is the rule, trail is the exception. Every time I change scene or patch I don't want the delay (or reverb) to trail. Except when I want it. In a live setting. In a record, I can make whatever I want...

And how do you achieve this now? What kind of settings do you change between scenes?

I bet you'll still be able to do it regardless of my wish being implemented or not

 

[DLC86]

Here's my wish in diagrams, hoping it's clearer this way

 

[Smilzo]

If you "Make all level controls pre-effect" we (the user) should have to change the bypass mode and/or the way we set up the level/controller/scene/channel. If you "ADD" level pre-fx it's up to the user (as old lever are still there with usual behaviour).