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Delay Spillover?

NobisMetal

New here
Does anyone know if I need to do anything besides turning on the spillover option in the global menu to get my delays to spill? It doesn't seem to be working for me?? I have it set for both reverb and delay in the global menu. Thanks yall!
 

BDer

Regular
Greetings...

Try to use two patches with the same delay block and see if it spills over properly. Using different scenes within the same patch is the easiest way to get the spillover working, but using the same delay / reverb blocks & effect type (ping-pong, single mono, etc..) should work.

Bill
 

chris

Legend!
the manual had some info on it!

16.14 Setting Up Spillover
Spillover allows delay and reverb tails to ring out when an effect is bypassed or when you change presets. This method details how to set up spillover when using different presets. Firmware 9.0 added SCENES capability, which makes it easier to get perfect spillover within a single preset as detailed in the first section below. (See p. 173)

16.14.1 Within a Single Preset
The first case is the easiest to set up and requires almost no special settings. To enable tails to ring when an individual delay or reverb effect is bypassed (by a footswitch or scene change for instance), simply change its BYPASS MODE to “MUTE FX IN.” The explanation of Bypass Mode on p. 115 explains why and how this works.

16.14.2 Across Different Presets
Setting up spillover that works across different presets is a bit more involved. The first step is to set DELAY SPILL on the CONFIG page of the GLOBAL menu (p. 132) according to whether you want Delays, Reverbs, or “BOTH” to spill over when you change presets. (“Delay” does not include Multi Delay or Megatap blocks).

Then, you need to ensure that the same delay or reverb blocks exist in both the preset you are changing from and the preset you are changing to. These need to be not only the same block but the same INSTANCE (i.e. you must use Delay 1 and Delay 1 vs. Delay 1 and Delay 2).

The moment you change to a new preset, the current settings for its delay or reverb blocks “take over” processing the tails. If you change from a preset where delay has a time of 500 ms to one where the time is 100 ms, the tails will be “inserted” into the new effect and be heard as 100 ms echoes. For spillover to work perfectly then, the pair(s) of blocks in both “starting” and “landing” presets must have essentially identical settings and be placed in similar routing architectures. You would hear quite a sudden difference in the tail, for instance, if a delay was placed after a clean amp in the first preset and in front of a heavily overdriven amp in the second.

Bypass states and BYPASS MODE settings must also be considered. Switching from a preset where delay or reverb is engaged to one where it is bypassed with a BYPASS MODE setting of “MUTE FX OUT” will prevent the tails from being heard. Switching to a preset where the block is bypassed with a setting of “MUTE FX IN” however, will cleverly allow the tails to ring while material you play after the preset change will be heard without the effect.

Some smart shortcuts exist for setting up reverb and delay presets for spillover. If you create one preset as desired, you can save a copy to a new location and make changes only to other blocks. Using Global Blocks is another way to ensures that mix, level, and other important settings will be consistent (though block routing and sequence on the grid could still be a concern). Using the RECALL EFFECT function (p. 37), you can “import” a delay or reverb block from another preset. This certainly beats pencil and paper as a means to transfer settings. Finally, Axe-Edit, our free companion editor/librarian to the Axe-Fx line, offers numerous conveniences, like copying/pasting blocks from one preset into various others and the ability to keep a “library” of effect block templates that can be inserted into any preset at any time.
 

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
google search the following:

"axefxii delay spillover scenes"

many, many discussions on the topic.
 

smcrosby

Forum Addict
the manual had some info on it!

16.14 Setting Up Spillover
Spillover allows delay and reverb tails to ring out when an effect is bypassed or when you change presets. This method details how to set up spillover when using different presets. Firmware 9.0 added SCENES capability, which makes it easier to get perfect spillover within a single preset as detailed in the first section below. (See p. 173)

16.14.1 Within a Single Preset
The first case is the easiest to set up and requires almost no special settings. To enable tails to ring when an individual delay or reverb effect is bypassed (by a footswitch or scene change for instance), simply change its BYPASS MODE to “MUTE FX IN.” The explanation of Bypass Mode on p. 115 explains why and how this works.

16.14.2 Across Different Presets
Setting up spillover that works across different presets is a bit more involved. The first step is to set DELAY SPILL on the CONFIG page of the GLOBAL menu (p. 132) according to whether you want Delays, Reverbs, or “BOTH” to spill over when you change presets. (“Delay” does not include Multi Delay or Megatap blocks).

Then, you need to ensure that the same delay or reverb blocks exist in both the preset you are changing from and the preset you are changing to. These need to be not only the same block but the same INSTANCE (i.e. you must use Delay 1 and Delay 1 vs. Delay 1 and Delay 2).

The moment you change to a new preset, the current settings for its delay or reverb blocks “take over” processing the tails. If you change from a preset where delay has a time of 500 ms to one where the time is 100 ms, the tails will be “inserted” into the new effect and be heard as 100 ms echoes. For spillover to work perfectly then, the pair(s) of blocks in both “starting” and “landing” presets must have essentially identical settings and be placed in similar routing architectures. You would hear quite a sudden difference in the tail, for instance, if a delay was placed after a clean amp in the first preset and in front of a heavily overdriven amp in the second.

Bypass states and BYPASS MODE settings must also be considered. Switching from a preset where delay or reverb is engaged to one where it is bypassed with a BYPASS MODE setting of “MUTE FX OUT” will prevent the tails from being heard. Switching to a preset where the block is bypassed with a setting of “MUTE FX IN” however, will cleverly allow the tails to ring while material you play after the preset change will be heard without the effect.

Some smart shortcuts exist for setting up reverb and delay presets for spillover. If you create one preset as desired, you can save a copy to a new location and make changes only to other blocks. Using Global Blocks is another way to ensures that mix, level, and other important settings will be consistent (though block routing and sequence on the grid could still be a concern). Using the RECALL EFFECT function (p. 37), you can “import” a delay or reverb block from another preset. This certainly beats pencil and paper as a means to transfer settings. Finally, Axe-Edit, our free companion editor/librarian to the Axe-Fx line, offers numerous conveniences, like copying/pasting blocks from one preset into various others and the ability to keep a “library” of effect block templates that can be inserted into any preset at any time.
Thanks Chris - you make it so easy to learn this stuff and find key references. :encouragement:
 

Albion

Inspired
I have to say that spillover is one of the few things that doesn't worlk very well in axe fx :-(
 

Ju Lee

Inspired
Is it possible to turn off volume with pedal in one preset, but delay continues sounding?
 
Last edited:

J-Beard

Inspired
Is it possible to turn off volume with pedal in one preset, but delay continues sounding?
Put a volume block before your delays. When you roll the volume down the delays will continue to sound until they decay off at whatever your settings dictate.
 

GreatGreen

Forum Addict
There's been some discussion about this. Adding Always active spillover in the Axe-Fx will basically never happen because to do it the right way you'd need exactly double the amount of capability the Axe-Fx has now. The reason for this is because to have true spillover, the Axe would always need two patches fully loaded at a time, those patches being the newest activated patch and the one you're switching from, which would only exist for the purpose of producing the spillover. So basically you'd need to put almost another entire Axe-Fx inside the Axe-Fx all for just a second or two of spillover at most per patch change.

Basically, making the Axe-Fx truly spillover capable would be the absolute most expensive feature Fractal could add (to the tune of almost doubling the cost of the unit), while simultaneously providing about the most insignificant benefit possible by any measurable metric.
 

Phostenix

Forum Addict
I have to agree...having the same delay block in all patches is limiting....
TLDR Version:
So, in the end, if you want spillover I would suggest that you build a patch template that includes the delay & reverb blocks in the grid where you want them & then use that template to build all of your patches. That way, your patches always have the delay & reverb blocks in a fixed position in the grid like other devices and spillover will work the way you want it to.


Full Version:

Having the same delay block in all patches is precisely what the Axe would need to have in order to do spillover delay like some other devices do. The reason spillover is "easier" in other devices is because it is a fixed block in their signal chain. You can turn it on or off, but you can't move it. As you change from patch to patch, the delay block is either on or off in that patch & spillover works seamlessly. The downside of that type of setup is, of course, that you can't move the delay (or reverb) block to a different position in the chain.

Cliff made a decision in the design of the Axe to give you complete freedom in how you want to build your grid (signal chain). Any change to the Axe that makes delay or reverb spillover "easier" allows makes the Axe less flexible. IOW, giving you what you want (automatic spillover capability) is actually the more limiting implementation.

So, there are 3 choices, as I see it:

1) Give users the maximum amount of flexibility with their signal chain, understanding that they will have to build presets a certain way to achieve spillover.
2) Dedicate certain blocks in every patch to delay and/or reverb, limiting how users can build their signal chain.
3) Add another dedicated delay & reverb processor to the Axe that is placed after the end of the grid in the signal chain so that it can be used by any patch.

I proposed a way to do option #2 on this forum a few weeks back, but there wasn't any real interest. It creates more additional issues than I think the vast majority of users want to deal it (creates more problems than it solves).

So, solution 3 is probably the only answer that would please everyone, but it would require a hardware change to the Axe. Maybe Ax-FX III, if Cliff deemed it worthy (but his comments so far lead me to believe that he doesn't).

So, in the end, if you want spillover I would suggest that you build a patch template that includes the delay & reverb blocks in the grid where you want them & then use that template to build all of your patches. That way, your patches always have the delay & reverb blocks in a fixed position in the grid like other devices and spillover will work the way you want it to.

My .02

:)
 

Phostenix

Forum Addict
There's been some discussion about this. Adding Always active spillover in the Axe-Fx will basically never happen because to do it the right way you'd need exactly double the amount of capability the Axe-Fx has now.
I disagree. :) You don't need double the capability of the current Axe, but you would need another dedicated processor for delay & reverb. That could even be a lesser processor than the current high end DSPs in the Axe (if Cliff was willing to make that compromise).

People can always use dedicated outboard delay and/or reverb units post Axe to get true spillover, too.
 

Phostenix

Forum Addict
After thinking about this over the last couple of weeks, I really do believe that the way Cliff implemented this is the best overall solution. It gives everyone maximum flexibility to build their signal chains how they want. If spillover is important to you, just build a patch template with delay and/or reverb blocks where you want them & use that to build your presets.
 

AlbertA

Forum Addict
I disagree. :) You don't need double the capability of the current Axe, but you would need another dedicated processor for delay & reverb. That could even be a lesser processor than the current high end DSPs in the Axe (if Cliff was willing to make that compromise).

People can always use dedicated outboard delay and/or reverb units post Axe to get true spillover, too.
That would only work if the delay and reverb were the last steps in the grid. If they are not, then the final outcome would be different. Imagine for example putting a delay block right at the front of the chain. The delay buffer just contains clean samples. if an amp comes after the delay block, then there's no other way to generate the final sound than through run the delay tail through the amp block. Hence the need for twice the power to deal with all possible permutations of the grid.
 

Phostenix

Forum Addict
That would only work if the delay and reverb were the last steps in the grid. If they are not, then the final outcome would be different. Imagine for example putting a delay block right at the front of the chain. The delay buffer just contains clean samples. if an amp comes after the delay block, then there's no other way to generate the final sound than through run the delay tail through the amp block. Hence the need for twice the power to deal with all possible permutations of the grid.
OK, I'll give you that. :)

But, if the goal is to have similar spillover functionality to other devices on the market (which is what people keep asking for), you would only need to add fixed blocks at the end of the grid (like the other devices do). Right? Or is there something out there with "moveable" spillover?
 
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