Delay Mix - Is this normal?

M

marshall2553

Power User
I think I'm just now noticing this, I doubt it's related to any recent firmware changes. When setting my delay mix I have to go VERY low to get the volume of the repeats where I want (the block is in series, level at 0, not using global mix or anything funky). Around 1-2% the repeats are still fairly prominent and as you near 50% the first repeat is actually louder than the dry signal. Happens with most of the delay types I've tried. I can still get the volume of the repeats where I want, but this seems weird.
 
That will happen when you run in series with higher mix ratios. If you run in Parallel you can use a higher mix ratios as this works better for the obvious reasons. When you run in series use a lower mix ratio and higher levels to balance out the repeats unless that's the effects you are looking for.
 
Sixstring said:
That will happen when you run in series with higher mix ratios. If you run in Parallel you can use a higher mix ratios as this works better for the obvious reasons. When you run in series use a lower mix ratio and higher levels to balance out the repeats unless that's the effects you are looking for.
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I know their are no "rules", but my understanding is that in series the level should be 0 and you should use mix to set the volume of the repeats and in parallel the mix should be 100% and you should use level to set the volume of repeats.

I guess my question is why would the initial repeat be louder than the dry signal in the 45-50% mix range? Shouldn't they be equal at 50%? Shouldn't the first repeat be barely audible with the mix <5%?
 
marshall2553 said:
I know their are no "rules", but my understanding is that in series the level should be 0 and you should use mix to set the volume of the repeats and in parallel the mix should be 100% and you should use level to set the volume of repeats.

I guess my question is why would the initial repeat be louder than the dry signal in the 45-50% mix range? Shouldn't they be equal at 50%? Shouldn't the first repeat be barely audible with the mix <5%?
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I'm not sure why it's that way and as far as I know it's always been that way ever since my standard days. I have messed with that for years using 0 in the level parameter as a baseline then using the mix parameter to get the level of repeats I want to hear. FM is playing a part here as well so you overall volume will affect this as well.

This is how I deal with it when I run a delay in series, Set the mix for the level of repeats you like then use level to set the overall volume of the repeats in the mix you are hearing within that mix. I know that sound counter intuitive but it seems to work fairly well. Play with that formula and see what you think.
 
50% should typically be about equal volume for first repeat. Some things like drive (in delay block) might change that somewhat. 5% is only going to make the wet signal about 20 dB lower than 50% mix, I believe. It's not strange that the delay is fairly audible at that level, so it's not really clear if you're noticing anything unusual.

What are you listening through? Can you post a preset and/or recording?
 
Bakerman said:
50% should typically be about equal volume for first repeat. Some things like drive (in delay block) might change that somewhat. 5% is only going to make the wet signal about 20 dB lower than 50% mix, I believe. It's not strange that the delay is fairly audible at that level, so it's not really clear if you're noticing anything unusual.

What are you listening through? Can you post a preset and/or recording?
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I'm playing through a SS power amp into a guitar cab and I have also tried in 4CM with my amp using a different preset. I can probably post a preset later today, but it's nothing out of the ordinary. Start with a blank preset, add Amp Block -> Delay Block. Reset the delay block, just to be safe, use any delay type. Mix at 40% and over the repeat is louder than the dry, at 5% it's still pretty loud.

This may be normal, just wanted to check. I have an AxeFX and I'm pretty sure it's the same way, but I haven't tried it yet.
 
Have you checked the VU meters for the 40% mix test, or judged by ear only? Hearing the guitar acoustically during the non-delayed note can play some tricks on the ears/mind. Try setting delay for 1500 ms or so, then hold a note/chord for about a second to see the level of dry vs. delay clearly on the VU meter.
 
Bakerman said:
Have you checked the VU meters for the 40% mix test, or judged by ear only? Hearing the guitar acoustically during the non-delayed note can play some tricks on the ears/mind. Try setting delay for 1500 ms or so, then hold a note/chord for about a second to see the level of dry vs. delay clearly on the VU meter.
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Great idea. I checked on the the VU meters and the first repeat appears to be the same volume or slightly quieter than the original note. I do seem to have to go lower on the mix to get where I want than I have on other devices but that's no big deal.

Nothing to see here, move along :)
 
marshall2553 said:
I do seem to have to go lower on the mix to get where I want than I have on other devices but that's no big deal.
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They might use a different mix law, like other Axe blocks and delay before it was updated to the current one.

Wet signal reaches maximum throughout 0-50% range while dry stays constant. At 5% mix, wet signal is at 10% the level of dry. That would happen around 9% mix with the old law, where both signals varied continuously throughout the entire range.
 
Bakerman said:
They might use a different mix law, like other Axe blocks and delay before it was updated to the current one.
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This is probably all it is. I had an Ultra and then a II, sold the II some time around when the mix law changed and have come back into the fold fairly recently. Mix of about 25% on other delay pedals sounds close to what I get at around 10% on the AX8, which probably makes sense with the current mix law.
 
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