Debating returning my FM3 and using my AX8. Thoughts?

[4406cuda]

I am also coming from an AX8. I originally was going to get an FM3 and FC6, but that with and expression pedal would require too large of a board. I decided to order am AXE III and the FC6. I will be racking the AXE III with my Fryette Power Station. The added bonus is, I do not have to wait to get an invite for the FM3.

 

[Sixstring]

I am also coming from an AX8. I originally was going to get an FM3 and FC6, but that with and expression pedal would require too large of a board. I decided to order am AXE III and the FC6. I will be racking the AXE III with my Fryette Power Station. The added bonus is, I do not have to wait to get an invite for the FM3.

Definitely some trade offs there!

 

[jbsn]

because the Axe2 generation of coding is done for the most part. once the Axe3 was created, it makes more sense to have a floor unit on the same code base rather than fully supporting two different systems.

the "newer Ares" can't just be injected into the Axe2 generation. if you mean an FM3 in the body of the AX8, well i'm sure people would have complained that Fractal can't come up with anything new. comparing to something like Digitech's RP series or Boss' GT series isn't the same. those are sold in retail stores, and marketing benefits from things being mostly the same. look at the typical boss pedal. solid for years in retail because of its "heritage." the Axe is a boutique unit, and judgment of those aren't the same.

i think the FM3 is a step up from the AX8 in every way, including footswitch count. sure there are less physical switches. but many people wanted something smaller and you can't have smaller with the same amount of physical controls. fortunately it's easy to add FCs or other switches or controllers to expand the rig.

i know people want a huge pedal board from Fractal with everything the Axe3 can do with 24 - 36 switches. but its cost of production, price for customers and other elements would probably out of this world for most people. $2000 is already a high mark for many. $4500 or more would be asking a lot. i mean just look at that number right there. yikes.

I was talking about the AX8’s general form factor, which I thought worked well for bread & butter live and without modular expansion. It just lacked a couple of pretty key features. Certainly nothing precludes generational updates under the hood or with the interface.

Also I didn’t find the AX8 especially large, but sure, many people like smaller nowadays. But it’s not like they shrunk the FM3 down to a Helix Stomp, it’s about 5 inches narrower and an inch shorter than an AX8, with a jump from 11 down to 3 switches. That’s great for a desktop unit—may as well be zero switches, fine. But as a floor unit I think 5 or 6+ would be the right number for me based on how it operates. A little less time mapping just suits me better and AX8”s pricing would have worked best. Again, for me.

As to your edge case player needing 3-4 dozen switches at ultra high cost, that’s a discussion for someone else. I’d probably suggest they’re better served by the Axe-3 unit and add-ons if anything.

 

[fsharpminor]

Watched this thread with great interest. I also found the size and layout of the ax8 good, and have been disappointed with the direction the fm3 is taking. The ax8 was designed only for live in my opinion....no usb recording, no headphone jack, and dedicated amp control knobs for easy access to the most important features you need immediate access to. I was very happy with this. The drawback of the ax8 was the clunky and difficult UI to edit sounds more deeply, I had to use axedit (which worked great). I was hoping for an ax8 update which ran ares, had a bit more power and improved the UI, but most importantly, kept the great things about the ax8...lots of knobs and switches giving instant access to all of the most important features when you play live. I Can understand why fractal made a decision to add headphones and usb recording, it makes sense for some, but for those of us who have professional gear it is not necessary (I dont even use the usb recording on the ax3, as I have far superior standalone converters for my pro tools rig), and I certainly would not be using an fm3 as a center for my studio. It just feels like the fm3 added some improvements, but also removed what was good, and actually is as much aimed at the 'home' market as the pro one. I am sure that this makes business sense for fractal, but doesnt add anything for me.
But....I definitely want to use ares live in a convenient size, so I will be buying one, with an fc6. The one thing about which there is no doubt is that everyone says ares is better....ranging from much better to 'not night and day, but definitely better', and in the end the reason i love fractal gear is the sound and feel. My one worry is the rumour that 'ares will be used in other products'. It would be very annoying to buy an fm3 and then for a more suitable to my desires product to come out later. If the rumour was confirmed that there was another unit on the way, then I would be tempted to wait, and continue using the ax8, and someone who really wanted the fm3 format could have my place on the waitlist. But you got to deal with the reality you have right now,,,so bring on the fm3, I m sure it willl make me smile (and curse)

 

[Greg Jones]

Hello all

I hope you are safe and healthy

I got the FM3 and there are many things I like about it. I do really like the layout of the AX8, more buttons, and of course the general knobs on top for bass, treble, etc

Before I return my FM3 I wanted to ask any of you who have made the switch from AX8 to FM3 if there are any tricks or things you learned on the FM3 to adjust not having all the buttons the AX8 has?

I am asking in case I missed something or didn't think of something. I don't want to return the FM3 and then a month or two later, discover some trick or thing I should have done and then I buy it again LOL

Part of me is baffled Fractal went this direction with only three buttons. I know it only takes holding a button to get to scenes, presets or whatever, but I really do like the AX8 layout and way it works. However, I see many people saying they love the FM3 more

Just looking for general feedback

Curt

I went from the AX8 to the FM3 and will never go back. I loved my AX8 but I have since sold it.

You can get 8 different sounds out of the FM3’s 3 buttons. PLUS you can switch layouts and get 8 more layouts, each with 8 different sounds.

I have my presets set up to primarily control via the scenes layout.

If you tap footswitch 1, you get scene 1. Tap it again and you get scene 2. It is set to toggle back and forth. If I hold footswitch 1, I get scene 3 upon release. I have the global hold function set to infinite so that I can time the patch change perfectly by my foot release.

I set up the middle foot switch just to toggle back and forth between scenes 4 and 5. The 3rd footswitch is set up like the first footswitch to yield scenes 6-8.

I left the middle footswitch hold button like stock so that I can navigate to different layouts.

I’m so happy with this set up that I might not even upgrade to add an FC-6 in the future. I haven’t gigged with the FM3 yet, given quarantine, but my preliminary testing is gold. With just the FM3 set up like this, I get the 8 switch control I got out of the AX8 at a smaller footprint. This makes carting around my rig much easier.

With the AX8, which by itself is pretty portable, I had it on a larger powered pedalboard with a wireless and a couple of other stomps. That made for a bit of a bear of a pedal board to haul around.

My new FM3 board is much more portable.

 

[Greg Jones]

I went from the AX8 to the FM3 and will never go back. I loved my AX8 but I have since sold it.

You can get 8 different sounds out of the FM3’s 3 buttons. PLUS you can switch layouts and get 8 more layouts, each with 8 different sounds.

I have my presets set up to primarily control via the scenes layout.

If you tap footswitch 1, you get scene 1. Tap it again and you get scene 2. It is set to toggle back and forth. If I hold footswitch 1, I get scene 3 upon release. I have the global hold function set to infinite so that I can time the patch change perfectly by my foot release.

I set up the middle foot switch just to toggle back and forth between scenes 4 and 5. The 3rd footswitch is set up like the first footswitch to yield scenes 6-8.

I left the middle footswitch hold button like stock so that I can navigate to different layouts.

I’m so happy with this set up that I might not even upgrade to add an FC-6 in the future. I haven’t gigged with the FM3 yet, given quarantine, but my preliminary testing is gold. With just the FM3 set up like this, I get the 8 switch control I got out of the AX8 at a smaller footprint. This makes carting around my rig much easier.

With the AX8, which by itself is pretty portable, I had it on a larger powered pedalboard with a wireless and a couple of other stomps. That made for a bit of a bear of a pedal board to haul around.

My new FM3 board is much more portable.

And I should add that the photo I uploaded is an older one. I have sense added a small simple 2 footswitch controller to quickly get to dedicated tuner and tap controls.

 

[N1LSDino]

I can tell you right now the latency between changing amp blocks and presets is way higher on the AX8 vs the FM3, at least from what I can tell. This was a huge deal breaker for me when I was playing out, as I always had to change my tones early which led me to ditching using the AX8 live and ultimately selling it. Granted I haven't played out with the FM3 yet due to the 'Rona, but just tinkering with it here at the house I can definitely feel the extra ponies and tech under the hood. As for the three footswitches, the units flexibility to use these differently is incredibly powerful. 99% of users will be able to accomplish everything they need as it sits. I suppose an FC6/12 would be nice, but definitely not needed. My 2 cents.

 

[fsharpminor]

That’s good to hear guys...bring on my FM3!

 

[Gasp100]

I am a huge proponent of the AX8 but I of course understand why they moved to the modular format of the FM3. I think we are spoiled seeing as how many footswitch functionality options they have added in the FM3 - many people on the verge of buying an FC6 to pair might just skip that now.
All of that being said, I STILL miss the AX8 vs. FM3.
I won't argue how much better the tones are (how much better are the tones, really???). Or more importantly, how much better to do you NEED the tones to be?
IR's have a huge effect on modeled rigs (any maker) and thusly there are some great AX8 models paired with great IR's that are "good enough" in a very great way IMHO.
Still love the AX8 form factor, still love the FX (including the drives) and I ALWAYS connected my AX8 to an audio interface (many options SPDIF, XLR, 1/4" heck you can even build routing to print a wet track and dry track with the AX8).
I always, always used AxeEDIT for the AX8 which is superb and use it for the FM3 as well so the onboard interface is really a wash for me on the FM3.

One big aspect for me is that I now want to commit to DI front of house / IEMS and another out to FX loop of tube amp/cab behind me OR powerstage 170 into a cab.
So if my PRIMARY tones I want are behind me coming from a traditional cab, is the different of FM3 tones vs. AX8 tones THAT much better???

I've flipped the non-headphone version of the FM3 and got back on the list for the headphone version this time.
If the FM3 is going to be the control center of my studio then it has to support headphones as well.

But, I am strongly considering going back to AX8 while I wait that is for certain. Someone just posted a live clip in the AX8 section and the guitar tones (and band mix) are glorious. Do we really need more than that?

 

[jbsn]

I’ll always consider improvements but the AX8 sounds excellent. It may not have every feature for every use case but it’s still a beastly machine.

 

[ben ifin]

I dont have my FM3 yet but its hard not think that the FM3 + Morningstar MC6 = small, perfect, two-way with extra EP Jacks on the M6 that you can add up to another 6 switches to ........ no brainer i.m.o.

Ben

 

[fsharpminor]

I am a huge proponent of the AX8 but I of course understand why they moved to the modular format of the FM3. I think we are spoiled seeing as how many footswitch functionality options they have added in the FM3 - many people on the verge of buying an FC6 to pair might just skip that now.
All of that being said, I STILL miss the AX8 vs. FM3.
I won't argue how much better the tones are (how much better are the tones, really???). Or more importantly, how much better to do you NEED the tones to be?
IR's have a huge effect on modeled rigs (any maker) and thusly there are some great AX8 models paired with great IR's that are "good enough" in a very great way IMHO.
Still love the AX8 form factor, still love the FX (including the drives) and I ALWAYS connected my AX8 to an audio interface (many options SPDIF, XLR, 1/4" heck you can even build routing to print a wet track and dry track with the AX8).
I always, always used AxeEDIT for the AX8 which is superb and use it for the FM3 as well so the onboard interface is really a wash for me on the FM3.

One big aspect for me is that I now want to commit to DI front of house / IEMS and another out to FX loop of tube amp/cab behind me OR powerstage 170 into a cab.
So if my PRIMARY tones I want are behind me coming from a traditional cab, is the different of FM3 tones vs. AX8 tones THAT much better???

I've flipped the non-headphone version of the FM3 and got back on the list for the headphone version this time.
If the FM3 is going to be the control center of my studio then it has to support headphones as well.

But, I am strongly considering going back to AX8 while I wait that is for certain. Someone just posted a live clip in the AX8 section and the guitar tones (and band mix) are glorious. Do we really need more than that?

Agree...I also used the AX8 with out1 to FOH and iems and out2 to a fryette powerstation and a cab...worked and felt perfect. Do I need better tone? probably not as i got plenty of compliments on my tone using the ax8 (more than my fender deluxe reverb and pedals!), but what intrigues me is the better feel of ares. Even if its just a few percent, better feel means better playing, better playing means more work imo. What sold me on fractal gear was that it felt so much better. I have had good sounds from Kemper but it never felt right, so i moved on. I also have to admit that i suffer from G.A.S. (gear aquisition syndrome). In my studio I have loads of things to record with (valve amps and mics, UAD Ox, Software, Fractal) so the whole usb recording means nothing to me. Still love the AX8 form factor as well....sigh. I will be keeping my ax8 as well as getting the fm3, why, I dont know...
ps maybe this is a question for the other thread, but what happened to the rumour about ares for the AX8?

 

[Gasp100]

The only thing that makes me hesitate about FM3 + midi controller is you will need some type of board + power for the Morningstar (or other). So the board + power = $200 let's say? Then the MIDI controller itself is ~$300?
If you've seen an FM3 or FC6 in person you'll understand how stout of a built it is especially with the end caps. It's really perfect to be sitting on a floor, no excess board involved.
For my specific purposes it really is FM3 (with headphones) with layouts well understood and configured by itself.
If that is NOT enough then FM3 + FC6 is ridicously powerful and very elegant solution - single short FASlink/XLR cable, still single IEC power cable out to FM3.

I dont have my FM3 yet but its hard not think that the FM3 + Morningstar MC6 = small, perfect, two-way with extra EP Jacks on the M6 that you can add up to another 6 switches to ........ no brainer i.m.o.

Ben

 

[ethomas1013]

If FAS would enable MIDI over USB with power, that Morningstar controller would get a lot more interesting.

 

[jimbop]

ive sold my AX8......but not for a FM3 which looks like a zoom unit!
ive gone for the AXE FX II xl, more oomph! cant afford the AX3.
FM3 has zero appeal to me.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

Part of me is baffled Fractal went this direction with only three buttons.

It baffles me how some people still don't get it.
Unlike the AX8, the FM3 is designed to be the brain piece of a modular rig.
It's the best of all worlds.
The FM3 doesn't just have 3 buttons. The FM3 can have as many buttons as you want it to. From as low as 3, and as high as you can carry.
That is just absolutely brilliant and I wouldn't have it any other way. You can't cut the AX8 in half if you want a lighter unit for an occasion and you can get away with fewer buttons.
To buy the smallest piece of a modular rig, and complain that it has fewer buttons than the all-in-one AX8 rig, is simply unfair.
Do note, that FM3 is cheaper than AX8, btw. Coupled with an FC6, it is only a few hundred bucks more expensive, but a lot more powerful. It all scales reasonably. And the connection between FC6 and FM3 is as painless as it gets - Only a single XLR cable and you're set... no need for anything extra to power the FC6 either. Bolt them together on a plank and you've got yourself a rig that beats the AX8 in footswitch functionality.
The only downside is that FM3+FC6 is wider than AX8 (Though not as deep), so it would be nice to have more options... like an FC4. I'd buy that.

 

[chris]

The only thing that makes me hesitate about FM3 + midi controller is you will need some type of board + power for the Morningstar (or other). So the board + power = $200 let's say? Then the MIDI controller itself is ~$300?
If you've seen an FM3 or FC6 in person you'll understand how stout of a built it is especially with the end caps. It's really perfect to be sitting on a floor, no excess board involved.
For my specific purposes it really is FM3 (with headphones) with layouts well understood and configured by itself.
If that is NOT enough then FM3 + FC6 is ridicously powerful and very elegant solution - single short FASlink/XLR cable, still single IEC power cable out to FM3.

I’ve used exactly that. No board. Just put them both on the floor at gig time. USB Battery to power the MC6 or usb cable to phone charger. $20 maybe? But I already had it so no additional really.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

The only thing that makes me hesitate about FM3 + midi controller is you will need some type of board + power for the Morningstar (or other). So the board + power = $200 let's say?

The FM3 will be able to provide power through the USB A port, once it's enabled. So... no extra PSU required.
To bolt them together on a board will cost you pretty much nothing.
A board can literally be a simple plywood plank. If you just want to connect the FM3 with a morningstar, getting an expensive pedalboard makes no sense.

 

[Gasp100]

The FM3 will be able to provide power through the USB A port, once it's enabled. So... no extra PSU required.
To bolt them together on a board will cost you pretty much nothing.
A board can literally be a simple plywood plank. If you just want to connect the FM3 with a morningstar, getting an expensive pedalboard makes no sense.

Wow, great news! I'm holding out for FM3 with headphone jack this time which is probably quite a while out that I've rejoined the list.
My Iridium rig is filling the gap and still kick ass until then, but clearly the FM3 is already getting better with more improvements to come!

 

[flying_walrus]

The FM3 will be able to provide power through the USB A port, once it's enabled.

it will? i wasn’t aware Fractal had announced that