Dealing with hot guitar

Its funny how wildly the input level seems to be between axe fx units. I have guitars loaded with EMG 81s and the Jim Root set and I still have to set the input level to around 80% to tickle the red. I set pickup height at 2mm for bass and 1.5mm for treble. How are guys only sitting at like 15%? Seems strange to me.
 
Ok after doing some testing with the synth block like Bakerman said, I was able to confirm that the input meter red LEDs do in fact light up with 6 dB of headroom left. Using a 1 kHz triangle wave (to make peak clipping easier to see) I cabled from Out 3 to the front panel input and set the synth block output level and adjusted the Input 1 level in the I/O menu until it just turned on the red LED. I recorded a DI via USB Input 5 and there was no clipping in the waveform. I then raised the synth block output level 6 dB, recorded another DI track and again there was no visible clipping in the waveform. If I raised the synth block output level any more than 6 dB, I could then see clipping in the recorded DI waveform. It was much easier to tell with the steady signal output of the synth block versus the really dynamic and transient output of a guitar pickup.
 
Its funny how wildly the input level seems to be between axe fx units. I have guitars loaded with EMG 81s and the Jim Root set and I still have to set the input level to around 80% to tickle the red. I set pickup height at 2mm for bass and 1.5mm for treble. How are guys only sitting at like 15%? Seems strange to me.
80% with active EMG humbuckers? That doesn't seem right. Are you running anything between your guitar and the Axe's input?
 
So...as I was saying :), there is currently no way to know you're clipping from the front panel meter. It would be nice if the red LED could serve as an overload indicator by remaining on for an extended period of time whenever clipping occurs.
 
What is you best practice, fast way to resolve?
I make it standard practice to have a volume block in all my personal presets.

My Les Paul Triumph Bass and Music Man Axis guitar are 20% hotter than my other basses and guitars.

As a solution I have volume block channels dedicated to each to knock down levels so that the rest of my instruments play nicely.

It's easier to insert one block from the block library in 25 presets than copy the 25 presets and adjust levels.

The Fractal gives you an easier and more repeatable solution than dealing with a traditional pedal board and tube amp in that situation. If the tube amp is finicky, you will be juggling levels for years.
 
So...as I was saying :), there is currently no way to know you're clipping from the front panel meter. It would be nice if the red LED could serve as an overload indicator by remaining on for an extended period of time whenever clipping occurs.
What if the other meter LEDs turn off leaving only the red LED lit when it clips? So you'd see all the colors lit up when you cross the -6 dB threshold and then just the red LEDs when it actually clips. The red LED could then serve double duty.
 
What if the other meter LEDs turn off leaving only the red LED lit when it clips? So you'd see all the colors lit up when you cross the -6 dB threshold and then just the red LEDs when it actually clips. The red LED could then serve double duty.
I think that would be a fine idea, as long as it remained like that for a while after the clipping event. I've always thought it odd that a $2000 device doesn't have a clipping indicator.
 
Its funny how wildly the input level seems to be between axe fx units. I have guitars loaded with EMG 81s and the Jim Root set and I still have to set the input level to around 80% to tickle the red. I set pickup height at 2mm for bass and 1.5mm for treble. How are guys only sitting at like 15%? Seems strange to me.
The EMG 81 isn't nearly as hot as it's made out to be. I have another guitar with an 81 and it doesn't even tickle the red at 50%. I have to raise it to about 70% to tickle the red. It's about 4mm from the low string and I'm using 12s in drop c. I can't believe how much hotter the 57 is. Even at 5% it hits the red easily, but I do like the character of the sound better than the 81.
 
80% with active EMG humbuckers? That doesn't seem right. Are you running anything between your guitar and the Axe's input?
The EMG 81 isn't nearly as hot as it's made out to be. I have another guitar with an 81 and it doesn't even tickle the red at 50%. I have to raise it to about 70% to tickle the red. It's about 4mm from the low string and I'm using 12s in drop c. I can't believe how much hotter the 57 is. Even at 5% it hits the red easily, but I do like the character of the sound better than the 81.
I run my guitars straight into my unit. I have 5 of them, various pickups (tone zone/air norton, EMG JR set, 81 set, duncan hyperions) and they all react the same way (need to be up to 80% or more to tickle the red. Pickup height all the same across. Used to have a EMG 57/66 set in my ESP horizon and it reacted the same way with my unit. I've had to set the input this hot since the day I got the unit.
 
I run my guitars straight into my unit. I have 5 of them, various pickups (tone zone/air norton, EMG JR set, 81 set, duncan hyperions) and they all react the same way (need to be up to 80% or more to tickle the red. Pickup height all the same across. Used to have a EMG 57/66 set in my ESP horizon and it reacted the same way with my unit. I've had to set the input this hot since the day I got the unit.
Huh, I run EMG 81's and 57 sets, as well as Fishman Fluence Modern and Classic sets too and can't turn mine past 15%. I just went back to the 81 recently though and haven't checked it vs. the others though. I play at standard or half down mostly too. Are you using a cable or wireless? I can't imagine running anything I have at 80%.
 
The EMG 81 isn't nearly as hot as it's made out to be. I have another guitar with an 81 and it doesn't even tickle the red at 50%. I have to raise it to about 70% to tickle the red. It's about 4mm from the low string and I'm using 12s in drop c. I can't believe how much hotter the 57 is. Even at 5% it hits the red easily, but I do like the character of the sound better than the 81.
+1

I long time ago, I was told by a friend of mine (who has probably tried more pickups than anybody I ever met), that EMG 81/85s are in fact not super hot, but more middle of the road. After I experimented myself, I came to the same conclusion. A Duncan JB or Dimarzio Super Distortion are noticeable hotter than an EMG 81 or 85.
 
Huh, I run EMG 81's and 57 sets, as well as Fishman Fluence Modern and Classic sets too and can't turn mine past 15%. I just went back to the 81 recently though and haven't checked it vs. the others though. I play at standard or half down mostly too. Are you using a cable or wireless? I can't imagine running anything I have at 80%.

Running a 10 foot mogami gold cable to the rear input. Nothing else in the chain. It's always baffled me since the day I got the unit because I've read numerous posts about how everyone runs theirs so low. I wonder if it causes any unwanted noise?
 
Another option would be to create a guitar specific preset(s).
That's been my go to - SD JB's on a Jackson and a Charvel. The output from the Charvel is noticeable hotter (lack of pot loading?) - I'm running the trim at .7 to even things out.
 
Because of the taper of the Input Level control, there's not as much level difference in the middle range of the control as you might expect. Doing a bit of testing with the synth block in loop back, I was able to come up with some rough gain numbers for the control. These are just ballpark based on the lighting of the red LED on the input meter while messing with the controls.

100% = +8 dB
95% = +6.1 dB
90% = +4.8 dB
80% = +3 dB
70% = +1.8 dB
60% = +0.8 dB
50% = 0 dB
40% = -0.8 dB
30% = -1.8 dB
20% = -3 dB
10% = -5.7 dB
5% = -8.7 dB
0% = -20 dB

As you can see the control is definitely not linear and most of the available range is in the +/-5dB gain rage. It isn't until you get above 90% or below 10% that it changes more quickly, especially on the lower end.
 
The other factor is imprecision of the method used to set the level. Interpretations of "hit a chord" and "tickle the red" can vary widely, so it's not surprising that the level adjustments are different for different people, even when the guitar is the same.
 
The other factor is imprecision of the method used to set the level. Interpretations of "hit a chord" and "tickle the red" can vary widely, so it's not surprising that the level adjustments are different for different people, even when the guitar is the same.
+1

How heavy handed you are probably makes more difference than pickups when users compare numbers. When people say they have the input at 80 %, I'd bet that I could easily make their rig clip with their guitar.
 
Yeah, guitar pickups are quite dynamic. Peaks from hard hits can be pretty strong compared to the decay. Someone with a light touch and attack could easily get away with much higher settings. I tend to beat on my guitars like a drunken caveman at times.
 
To amplify on Moke's comment, if you have one guitar that is hotter than the rest, adjust your input level for that hot one so it doesn't overload the A/D converter, and leave it at that level for all your guitars. Your other guitars won't be using the full range of the converter, but the extra noise due to that is rarely enough to worry about.

There is a separate issue of different tube distortion with different guitars due to different pickup output levels. If you want to balance those, you can adjust the input gain whenever you change guitars. Or you can leave it alone if you want to hear different different amounts of gain for your different guitars.
this is quite true in the physical world just the same. Hot pickups push into overdrive so much easier
 
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