DBA Fuzz War clipping the input of my Axe (updated with new question! 2/11)

Alabama man

Alabama man

Inspired
*2/11/16 update with new question*

So I did a side by side comparison of my Deluxe Reverb Reissue against the Axe + Matrix gt1000 - both going through my Mesa Recto 2x12 cabinet. The Fuzz war has tons of boost on tap when running into the Actual amp while going into the front of the axe (using deluxe verb vibrato amp), there's virtually no boost at all. The fuzz war volume control does nothing at all. In fact, the output cuts when it's engaged. Not so with real deluxe reverb.

It's also worth mentioning that the pedal sounds pretty crummy with the axe vs the real life deluxe reverb. Not sure what to do . . .


Old post:
I just picked up a Death By Audio Fuzz War (sounds awesome) and I'm running it into the front of my axe fx II XL. If I keep the volume at noon on the fuzz war, the input clip lights are consistently red. It doesn't sound bad per say, but I'm worried about messing something up. Lowering the level to 9 o'clock on the fuzz war fixes this, but the pedal itself reacts differently at a lower volume setting.

I tried it in the loop and just . . . no. It's not working there. I'd like to keep the I/O level where it's at since it sounds good when the fuzz is off (I made a previous thread on I/O level and how it sounded different to me at certain numbers - don't make fun of me please!)

Anything I'm missing here?

Thanks
 
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All four input lights (two greens, an amber and a red) are constantly lit?
 
The lights don't stay constantly lit (up to red) - if I'm not playing, it's as normal. But if I start riffing, the red lights are being hit 95% of the time. I know the L input lights are doing this, but I'll have to double check when I get home to see if the R input lights are doing it as well.
 
I would think a pedal meant to boost the input of an amp would also boost the input of the Axe. to be honest I don't use pedals in front of my axe, but I think what's happening is ok.

I don't think the pedal itself changes function if its level is reduced. It's probably the interaction of the pedal with the Amp that changes, which is exactly how it works with a real amp.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
I would think a pedal meant to boost the input of an amp would also boost the input of the Axe. to be honest I don't use pedals in front of my axe, but I think what's happening is ok.

I don't think the pedal itself changes function if its level is reduced. It's probably the interaction of the pedal with the Amp that changes, which is exactly how it works with a real amp.
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Is there any risk of me damaging the axe by putting a fuzz into the input and having the input hit red? I understand that the lights don't mean you're actually clipping, but idk. I don't want to mess anything up.

I'll give it a shot in the loop again, but it may be that the loop signal is too hot. I also tried my Stereo Memory Man w/ Hazarai in the loop and it was very noisy. The only pedals that sound normal in the loop so far are my Strymon pedals.
 
Yeah man just turn the axe fx input level down. That thing must be pushing a Hell of a lot of gain though. I've run a variety of boosts in front of the axe. Never clipped.
 
A lot of fuzz pedals sound different in an effects loop vs straight in from the guitar. It has to do with the high impedance of the guitar's pickups as opposed to the low impedance signal coming out of the loop.
 
So are you playing some doom or stoner metal? I've been considering something like an Earthbound Audio Supercollider, or maybe something by Dunwich to push the front end of the Axe. I've been messing more with the fuzz pedal emulations in the axe but man... they don't quite "get" there like the real thing. I don't really use the ts stuff anymore - if I boost the input of the amp I just use a filter. Don't really care for boost coloration. But for something doomy you really NEED that fuzz tone.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
So are you playing some doom or stoner metal? I've been considering something like an Earthbound Audio Supercollider, or maybe something by Dunwich to push the front end of the Axe. I've been messing more with the fuzz pedal emulations in the axe but man... they don't quite "get" there like the real thing. I don't really use the ts stuff anymore - if I boost the input of the amp I just use a filter. Don't really care for boost coloration. But for something doomy you really NEED that fuzz tone.
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm using it for - think Russian Circles / Deafheaven type heavy (Mike Sullivan also uses the Fuzz War). Don't get me wrong - I've been able to get some crazy doom sounds with just the axe, but there's still something special about running a dedicated fuzz pedal. Maybe Fuzz War sounds are achievable within the Axe, but $100 for this pedal got me there without having to spend loads of time editing, trying to find that sound.

I've also tried quite a few fuzz pedals and was always bummed out about the woofy low end. That's what drew me in to the Fuzz War - it sounds HUGE, but the low end can totally chug! Forget pairing it with an OD - then it's just insane and a really great combination of a huge fuzz sound with even tighter low end. Not 5150 tight, but close enough.

There's also something about the aggression factor with this fuzz - it sounds ANGRY. Like . . . Doom angry, not blues angry or something. For lack of a better word, pure "hate". Of all the demos on YT, I feel this one accurately represents the sound of the Fuzz War:

 
So I did a side by side comparison of my Deluxe Reverb Reissue against the Axe + Matrix gt1000 - both going through my Mesa Recto 2x12 cabinet. The Fuzz war has tons of boost on tap when running into the Actual amp while going into the front of the axe (using deluxe verb vibrato amp), there's virtually no boost at all. The fuzz war volume control does nothing at all. In fact, the output cuts when it's engaged. Not so with real deluxe reverb.

It's also worth mention that the pedal sounds pretty crummy with the axe vs the real life deluxe reverb. I don't really think this has anything to do with the modeled version being different than my deluxe reverb amp. Not sure what to do . . .
 
The front end of the axe acts as a buffer, so the interaction between the real amp and the axe isnt going to be the same. aside from that theres not a whole lot you can do about it currently, i know if you check the fuzz thread in the wish list section there were some tips on getting a more genuine reaction out of it but its probably not gonna be the same sorry to say.
 
Brownmatthall said:
The front end of the axe acts as a buffer, so the interaction between the real amp and the axe isnt going to be the same. aside from that theres not a whole lot you can do about it currently, i know if you check the fuzz thread in the wish list section there were some tips on getting a more genuine reaction out of it but its probably not gonna be the same sorry to say.
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Thanks for clearing that up. Bummer . . .
 
Because you are running a real fuzz, shouldn't the interaction between the guitar pickups and fuzz be fine regardless if there is a buffer after the fuzz? Could it not be that the difference between the real amp and axe fx is caused by how the axe fx instrument input normalizes the input signal for the analog to digital conversion. If you add a clean boost before the amp-block or raise amp input trim, could that get you closer? I don't know if that makes any sense, I'm just guessing here.

I've read people say that having a buffer after a fuzz shouldn't be a problem. It's in front of the fuzz that it changes the interaction with the guitar, but then perhaps the is some complex three way interaction between guitar, fuzz and amp input someone with better knowledge could enlighten us about.

I too would like to run a real fuzz in front of the axe-fx and would like to hear if anyone has had any success with that.
 
mrMagenta said:
BTW. Did you try changing input impedance settings on your axe fx-patch to see if that changes things?

In this thread VegaBaby suggests using 1M as a starting point when using a real Fuzz pedal. I think that's the default setting when using auto, unless you have a drive block or something else that changes the input impedance, but it might be worth a try anyway.
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fuzz-pedals-axe-fx-ii.78581/
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I did not as I was not aware of that. Is this for running pedals in the loop, or through the front?

I'll look into it - thanks!
 
Alabama man said:
I did not as I was not aware of that. Is this for running pedals in the loop, or through the front?

I'll look into it - thanks!
Click to expand...
yes, 1M is what most real amps would have as well. the Axe's front input contains some limiting though when driven super hard, so it won't sound exactly like hitting the front of an amp with massive dBs. I put my fuzzes guitar-front in. never the loop and they work just fine...
 
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