Day One AX8 impressions for a Axe II owner

L

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
I've built up a nice 4u Axe II rig with wireless, custom patch panels, and power conditioner but the rig really just sits at home anymore (on a modified tilt back amp stand). Getting ready to move, I've been organizing things around the house and my 4u rack, the CLR and the MFC seemed to be quite a bit of gear taking up space (not even counting the guitars)

Got me thinking about the AX8 since it was in stock...... Sure be a lot easier to move/travel with the AX8 compared to a packed 4u rack and then the MFC. Basically carrying the MFC alone is the same as the AX8 so it saves a 40ish lb rack unit.... Also could free up maybe a grand or so if I sold off the Axe II, the rack wireless, the patch panel, etc.... So quite a few "pro's" for going with the AX8 and hopefully not too many "con's", though I do sometimes enjoy dual amp patches.....

Anyways, thought it might be interesting to share my day one impressions and then update as I get a better feel for the unit.

Right off the bat, the build and form factor is great. Same size as the MFC really, and built is very solid. I will say though that a boot on the knobs might be an issue, one I hope to never have to deal with.... Additionally, the metal bar is nice to add protection, but with my size 12's, it does make the top row of buttons a little difficult to press on the fly as I keep hitting the bar, not the button. I do wish there was maybe an inch of extra space on the unit from the row of the buttons to the row of the knobs and I think it would work better for those with large feet. Unit would be bigger then of course...

2nd thought...this thing is both intuitive AND confusing. The foot switches do different things with short verse long presses and can be "sticky" or momentary, so your using the same switches to change scenes, patches, and also turn on/off effects (IA style). Its also customizable which might help down the road, but a little confusing right off the bat. I'd practice up at home a bit before using for a gig, to say the least.

I do like how it says what each switch turns on/off as the default setting, and you can tell your scene by a different set of LED's, so that much is good, but what is a bit difficult is reading the patch names as that is pretty small text and since my eyes are about 5 and a half feet above the floor, (and maybe not as good as they used to be) I have to lean down read it. When you press the button it does display the selected patch in larger font though so that much is helpful.

All things being equal, I initially feel the MFC is a little more straight forward as I have a row of scenes on the bottom, then go to patches on the next row, and then a few IA's on the top row. I feel this basically gives me everything all at once, instead of having to use the F1-3 switches to change modes. Some of that might be just getting used to it though, time will tell.

Sound wise...basically the same, but I did notice some little changes. Brownface for example as a tremolo on by default on the AX8, while off on the Axe II version of the patch, but core amp tones are equal and both sound great. Don't think your giving up anything as far as the modeling goes, sound wise.

Now editing from the front panel.....Some of this is my newness of course, but frankly my first impressions is this is a total PITA. Thankfully there is Axe-Edit. Now the Axe II some people don't like to program from the front panel, but its way, way easier than the AX8. Reason being the 4 way nav buttons, and dedicated buttons for things like layout, fx bypass etc. One the AX8 you need to use the dials to move u/d and l/r, then the page right has a dedicated button, but page left requires a shift button press then page left. I think with time I'll get quicker, but things that I can do in like 10 seconds on the Axe II from the front panel take me about 3-4 minutes.

On the flip side, the AX8 does have the dedicated knobs for BMT, MV etc, so that is a plus in some ways, but its really not that huge of deal to me, because, on the Axe II front panel, just hit the "x" or "y" button (lacking on the AX8) and it brings up the main amp page with those controls on the ABCD knobs. Just looks cooler on the Ax8 with the colored led rings.

My day one take away is really that the AX8 is better to edit/program at home, using Axe Edit, and maybe just quick tone stock tweaks at a gig. Your just not going to quickly be able to add in a few blocks to the grid in parallel routing on the fly, but likely this wasn't the intention of the unit. Otherwise it probably would of had the 4 way nav buttons etc.

Last but not least, CPU. Well it does use a bit more, and no, your not going to be able to load things like some of Simeon's crazy delay patches, but overall I haven't found it to be a real issue for what I would consider even pretty loaded patches.

What I'm finding though as I've tried to make a few (on Axe Edit of course lol) is that I need to start thinking about having 2 or 3 presets to cover 3 diverse sounds, instead of just one preset that uses 8 scenes, and things like 2 amp blocks each with x/y, 2 different drive blocks, 2 different delays etc. I don't use all that stuff at once on my Axe patches, but I can make one preset pretty much be an entire pedalboard of effects and use them as needed per scene. AX8 still can do x/y and is pretty powerful with scenes, but it has its limits, both in CPU and just the number of blocks. For the most part there are few times one can't just select a different preset when one wants a totally different tone.

Oh, one more thought, and that is one I've mentioned before (but only as a speculative owner) and that is cabling. I've got two XLR's, a power cord, and a usb cord running across my living room right now from the AX8. My Axe II is sitting in the corner near the wall, with usb, xlr's, and power also connected, but the one and only cable running to the middle of the room is the ethercon for the MFC. For some gigs I still think I'd rather have just one cable across the stage with my rack safely stage side and not run sound/power from my pedalboard location. Heck, I'd really love the MFC to be battery powered and bluetooth so then I could have ZERO cords on stage. Not a huge issue, but a rack "brain" with just a remote controller does have some advantages over an all in one floor controller/processor, but then the AX8 certainly is easier to carry.

Will have to give things some more time, get used to the (clever) switching system on the AX8, see if I miss dual amps, or the bias tremolo effect, or running dual instances of certain blocks, or the cab dephase setting etc before I either return the AX8 or end up selling my Axe II rack.

All and all, the Ax8 is pretty darn amazing though, especially for its price point. For the sheer amount of amp tones and great effects it can do, and for "only" $1400, its downright amazing. Just a foot controller used to cost you half the price!

So hope those impressions prove useful to some readers thinking of maybe making the same move. Not all is great and awesome, but there is a lot to like, so I don't think its a black or white choice for all users.

I've read stuff where people are saying things like "the Ax8 is amazing, I don't miss my Axe II in the slightest" and that certainly may be true for some people, but I also think there are going to be people who try the Ax8 and end up finding they need some features of the Axe II.

Likely will be guys who end up owning both too. Really the best of both worlds. Axe II to keep at home or in the studio, and then load up some (slighlty) scaled down patches into the Ax8 which you take to gigs or keep at the rehearsal space. Heck, could even run the AX8 into the Axe II loop and never run of out CPU or routing options! (I might have to do that this weekend)

Cheers
 
One more quick thought about the Ax8 that is kind of exciting..... I can now easily run things like an external fuzz pedal (not to start a debate on fractal drive blocks mind you) easily. Just patch it into the loop and stick it on the board. Easy to turn on/off, along with other hardware pedals.

On my Axe II I've not really done so, because short of adding a pricey midi switching system, and a rack drawer, thus a bigger rack, you can't really easily have a rig with just a couple of stomps on the stage next to your MFC, unless you of course want to start running long send/return cables across the stage and back to your rack unit.

Not sure if my wallet will like this ability to stick some hardware pedals back into the fx loop LOL
 
Don't you miss global blocks?
I've been using global blocks for amp and cab to be able of tweaking an amp in a patch and have it modified in all the others in one minute...
Now with ax8 it's a nightmare...
 
I do think some of it's a honeymoon phase for some guys... guys who upgraded original II to XL then to XL+ for all the extra stuff, then downsize to the axe8, and say they don't miss anything. Hard to believe. I need global amp blocks, and I like having separated concerns personally so it wouldn't work for me, although i'm downsizing a lot of stuff I take to gigs, this is one thing I will leave alone.
 
I've honestly never got into using global blocks, as I tend to use different amps for each preset, or will just save/copy an amp block if I really want the same one across presets, so for me, I'm not missing it, as I don't use it, but I certainly do see how it can be a useful feature. More so, given that one likely needs more presets as each one can be less complex, I do see how this could be an even more important feature for the AX8 to have.

I really wish the 8 knobs could be user assigned too, and have their functions indicated on the LCD screen, like the foot switches are. I personally find things like presence and depth to be wasted with a dedicated knob as they aren't parameters I ever touch really.

I'd love to have a per patch set of knobs assigned to what I consider important. Maybe its BMT and input gain on the top row, and then a knob for delay mix, one for number of repeats etc. Its cool having those knobs there but I just don't think they are being used to their fullest.

I will say that after a few hours of converting and loading different patches, there is a pretty significant CPU difference between the units. On the Axe you can have 2 reverb blocks, 2 multi delay, megatap delay, and still throw in 2 amp blocks, comps, 2 drive blocks, rotary etc etc and still be good on CPU. On the AX8 not only do you not have some of those options but you can't really run things like high quality reverb (normal sounds fine though) with a delay, rotary, chorus, flanger, amp, comp, drive etc, you'll start going over the CPU limit. You really do need to cut a few things out, and maybe have a preset with flanger, and a different one with chorus, if you want them with high quality reverb and a stereo delay.

Really comes down the the end user and how they set up patches though if the CPU will be an issue or not. For a "meat and potatoes" type of rock player, probably zero issues. For an ambient textural guitar player, they may get tired of seeing the CPU warnings real quick.

I think if I stick with the AX8 I might end up supplementing it with a few other pedals, maybe something like a Strymon Flint, which would give me a great bias trem (my favorite and sadly missing from the AX8) and also some pretty good reverbs. Now the Fractal reverbs sound great of course, but they do appear to use up a good bit of the CPU, so in some instances an external unit, be it a Flint, or a Wet etc, could probably help things out, or at least give options for when you just don't have the CPU to use the internal reverb.

In some ways I see this as kind of exciting, as I've never 100% loved things like the Fractal uni-vibe or the flanger. I could go and patch in a moon-vibe, and a elec lady (cheap but great sounding Elec Mistress copy) etc and between external and internal effects have all my favorite tones. Would be giving up things like scene recall on some settings of course which would be a shame.....

As I originally said, I don't think its a clear decision one way or the other, at least for me needs. Would of been great if the AX8 was just perfect, giving up nothing compared to the Axe II, but that is far from the case. At the same time, it does a ton of stuff right, enough to make one wonder if they can get along without some of those features as owning just the AX8 is appealing in its own way.

I will say this, if I never owned the Axe II, I'd probably be very happy with the AX8, without a doubt, especially if it was my first foray into modeling. Great tones, and tons of features, and very fair price. Its just when you've grown used to the Axe (I've owned mine since FW7 era) that your maybe a little spoiled with some of its features and processing power.
 
I spent the better part of yesterday breaking my new AX8 in coming from an Axe II as well.

First thing i tried to do was recreate my Axe II patches on my AX8. I've got a standard template that I run for the majority of my patches that has amp/cab, 2 drives, 2 delays, a comp and a reverb. And even with the reverb on normal quality the AX8 would turn the reverb off at around 90% CPU usage...

Needless to say that's gonna take some getting used to. But I think overall, while the AX8 continues to get more refined we will see some of these bumps getting smoothed out with the UI navigation and button pressing. CPU usage was a well known bottleneck when I bought the unit - so it just gives me an opportunity to be more creative and use the amp x/y and drive x/y blocks to make up my gain stages :)
 
If you turn the reverb density down to about 4 from the default of 8 you can often reduce the CPU enough to where it allows you to run the reverb block.

I wonder if Fractal could design a AX8 specific reverb block with a focus on economy. This might reduce one of the most common issues folks are having. As great as the Fractal reverb currently is, the AX8 might just not have the CPU to run it. Having an option of the Axe Fx reverb block, or a Ax8 specific option would be a nice option.

Sadly no firmware updates can fix the lack of a 4 way nav controller. Perfect spot would of been right where the enter/exit buttons go, or where the shift/lock button is. Would of made getting around the menu's so much easier
 
dpeterson said:
I do think some of it's a honeymoon phase for some guys... guys who upgraded original II to XL then to XL+ for all the extra stuff, then downsize to the axe8, and say they don't miss anything. Hard to believe. I need global amp blocks, and I like having separated concerns personally so it wouldn't work for me, although i'm downsizing a lot of stuff I take to gigs, this is one thing I will leave alone.
Click to expand...
It was mentioned that global blocks for amps only will be considered in a future firmware release. That is good enough for me.
 
Alright, well being its been over a week with the AX8 I thought I would share some updates....

Well, first and foremost, I've gotten a bit better at editing via the front panel. Its still not that quick or easy, but I have gotten pretty used to having to press things like the shift button each time I want to bypass a block, or move page left etc. Its not the smoothest setup but at least I know what to hit. Opinion remains that its far easier to edit on the Axe II, and AX8 really needs AxeEdit for actually creating patches as its just too much button pressing and such to create from the front panel. Smaller tweaks are possible though, and I can get around pretty well

As for the foot switches, I've grown to really like them. I enjoy the per patch IA settings and the dynamic labels, as well as the ability to switch scenes and patches with just a button press. Took a little while to get used to the workflow but its clever and works well. It can also be customized pretty easily, with the caveat that you do only have 8 switches at a time. The MFC with 17 switches can be a bit vaster in terms of layout design if you want some scenes, IA and preset switches and there are enough options to have them all set-up at once. Still though, MFC is extra hardware and cost and AX8 gives you those functions at no extra cost/size.

CPU limitations are still a factor, especially with some more complex setups such as wanting to run a parallel reverb and then add some things like pitch or chorus to the repeats, while still wanting to have things like a main reverb with a studio or hall effect. Basically you can't, due to CPU and also limited number of blocks. That said, some studio tones like that might not sound good live, so maybe for the intended usage the AX8 gives you all you need, and more so, should use. It can be a little frustrating though to run out of CPU and have blocks dropping out. I'm maybe not 100% sure if it will work or not for me

Bias tremolo...... this I miss! I've tried everything with regards to waveforms, duty cycles, envelope controllers etc in the tremolo block and while it can sound good, it still doesn't sound like the bias tremolo. Guess we can't really expect it to because the bias trem is actually taking all that amp modeling into account, crossover distortion etc etc, so its just a bit of a cooler tremolo, no getting around it. Just something you have to give up on the AX8, and one thing I do miss...

Do wish I could have 2 fx loops on it as well. Would be great for pre-amp dirt pedals, and then some post amp stuff like a Strymon, and with the flexibility of the grid, you'd have so many options on configuration...

All and all, just as I felt the first day, the AX8 is super usable, sounds great and is a fantastic deal for how much you get for a pretty fair price.

Overall, I'm still not 100% sure if I will keep it and sell the Axe II, or just stick with the Axe II......very tough choice between two fantastic options.
 
I have both and will be keeping both (so far I am about 9 months in on the AX8). They do different things, and were designed so. There's some overlap, but those thinking the AX8 will be an Axe Fx II aren't really looking at it for what it was designed to be.

Essentially, if you want things the Axe Fx does (global blocks, 2 amps at once, more blocks, etc) you get that unit. If you don't have to have all of that and want some cool switching features and the smallest box of badness in the Fractal world, the AX8 is your choice. If you want both, you get both! For me, having both units is the way. I know not everyone can or wants to do that. Just realize that's a choice we all make and isn't a weakness in either unit. If I had to go to just 1, it would be the Axe Fx. I'm very glad I don't.

To the OP, thanks for a great write up on your experience!
 
I wish Fractal had been a little bolder with the AFX 8 and implemented the editing functions into a phone and/or tablet application instead of trying to do it on a small screen with fewer physical controls. It was always going to be a compromise at best. Most people carry a phone or tablet with them now and sooner or later Fractal will have to provide an editor on those devices to remain competitive.
 
I think its a tough call if the AX8 can replace the II, because on one hand, its an obvious "no", there are clear limitations on the AX8, but...... not everyone fully utilizes the II, so for some users I think the AX8 could give up nothing (with regards to their needs).

Its like asking if a crossover SUV could replace a true 4x4.... Well for those who want to do real off-roading, no, I don't think so, but if your the type of 4x4 owner who never once ventures off paved roads....well, then what was the 4x4 really doing for you to make it worth getting such horrible gas mileage ?

If all you want is an amp, cab and maybe a delay and reverb...AX8 can meet every needs you've got. If your a guy like Simeon who creates ambient patches with 20 blocks, then no, AX8 can't do it. Clear cut as far as the two extremes go, but I think a lot of us fall in the middle...AX8 might work...might not

Do we give up 4 things to gain 3 other benefits ? Is that a good trade-off ? Or do we give up maybe just 2 features and gain 3 features ? Does that clearly push us into the AX8 camp ? Its going to so totally vary on the person, their music, how much they value portability, cost etc

I've had the KPA, Line6, 11 and the Axe and for me, picking the Axe-Fx was an "easy" choice, as it was choosing between very different options.

Choosing between the Axe II and the AX8 though....man is it ever hard, especially as BOTH, isn't a realistic option at the moment. Its a great option for sure, but just one I couldn't really swing.

Probably in the end, threads like this leave as many new questions unanswered as they answer for any given reader. Any Axe II owner probably will need to actually buy it and try it out, keep the choice that works best for them (if not both).

Tons of happy AX8 users so far, but there are also lots of people who love their II"s, so its not like any II user won't like the AX8 better, nor is it that any AX8 user wouldn't be happier with the II.

In some ways the AX8 falls right into a tough price point. If it was a II in floor format, regardless of price, then I'd surely buy it. If it had even less CPU and could do maybe only 4 blocks at a time, and cost $899 or something, basically meat and potatoes "fly rig" then I certainly wouldn't buy it.

As it stands, it does just enough to tempt a II user, and at a price that is hard to resist.
 
Nice post.....I am one of those that started with the standard and upgraded every time...never missed. Sold my XL+ about 2 months ago IIRC. I love the ax8. Now I am only in a home studio, played out for over 25+ years. Still go out and jam now and then but mostly just home studio stuff. mainly play lots of regular rock., R&B and Blues. Nothing real heavy, well unless Jimi is still considered heavy, more acidy I imagine :)
So I figured, hell at this stage of the game the AX8 is all I need. well, that is true for sure.
But I have to add, that I am missing my XL+ big time. Not for any special features, or routing, or 2 amps or anything specific. Just missing it and I will be getting another one as soon as I can.
Like many others, I will own both and never look back..................Just my 2 cents
 
Well written assessment of the advantages and limitations. I am in same boat. I got an AX8 about a week ago and have an XL with a Mark I as a back up. I'm keeping them all. I was looking for something I could grab as I ran out the door. Still not at the guitar in one hand and amp in the other level, but a lot closer. With all the injuries that I have had, I just can't be dragging around a full rig anymore all the time. It's nice have something of Axe FX quality in a pedal board. Now, I can ditch all my ToneLabs.
 
To give some closure to this thread, the AX8 is going to be returned and I am going to stick with my Axe II. Now that certainly doesn't mean the II is going to be the "best" choice for everyone, nor does it mean that II users shouldn't consider getting an AX8, either as a possible replacement, or supplement, it just means that for MY needs, the II ended up doing a bit more of what I wanted.

Basically after another day of jamming it came down to this line of thinking....

If I keep the Axe II what am I giving up ? Some extra spare cash in my wallet from its sale, and a bit less gear to haul around. I can always make more money and I don't really gig/travel too much so having a heavy rack at home isn't too big of deal.

If I go with the AX8 what am I giving up ? Ease of editing on the front panel, bias tremolo, complex routing with higher CPU, dual amps, input impedance, USB recording/reamping.


I could sell my Axe II rig for more than the AX8 cost me, and I'd have a smaller all-in-one rig, but that is really all I really gain. I suppose one could say the foot switch layout has some advantages over the MFC in terms of function, but a MFC rig has more switches and options so its probably a bit of a wash there.

I considered adding a few hardware pedals again, like fuzz, and vibe, but then after messing around with a few, I found (yet again) I can pretty much dial in something close in the box, and while GAS is fun and all, turning the AX8 into a huge board with $1k in extra pedals isn't too practical or really needed, so while yes, the AX8 is easier to pair up with other stomps, I'm taking that aspect off the table.

Where does that leave the choice ? Well, if money isn't a factor, and either unit is going to just sit in my den (which we can assume will hold true for the near future) then the AX8 really doesn't offer me any compelling reason to keep it. Again, I'm not saying its bad in any way, and this is just based on my needs, so no one get bent out of shape, k ?

I'm glad I tried it and can stop wondering everytime I see a pic of someones board with the AX8, I now know what is "best" for me. I can continue to enjoy my II and know I'm giving up nothing. I think if I stuck with the AX8 I'd still be happy overall, but likely would regret/miss the II at times. Maybe not daily, but sometimes I'd wish I could easily remap via USB, or I could dial in that sweet ass sweet Nuclear Tone bias tremolo, or load up a Simeon crazy ambient delay patch, or one of Tyler's awesome SRV dual amp patches etc.

The AX8 is going back into its nice double box. The sheer fact that such a small box contains an entire Fractal Audio rig gives me a small, last minute doubt, like "wait, this would be so portable, maybe I should keep it around", but that isn't a pressing or practical consideration right now.

IF, in the future, I am ever in a situation where I'm doing more gigs, frequent rehearsals or anything like that, I will totally buy an AX8 for those purposes, and know it would excel in them.

Basically, Cliff was right all along when he designed the unit for those specific purposes, and from my experience with it, that (and I might argue, only that) is what it excels at. Its not an Axe II in floor form, it won't replace the II (for me), but it can give you a fantastic sounding Axe "lite" experience you can take nearly anywhere
 
Not to my knowledge, its has stereo in and out on the OUT2 and IN2 jacks, but you can only insert one FX loop block as far as I can tell.
 
You have a L+R input jack, and a L+R output jack. You can insert a loop block basically anywhere into the grid, so it can, for example, put the loop in front of the amp block, after the amp block, after the cab block, etc etc. This is useful because maybe you want an external pedal in your loop before the amp in one patch, and then in the next after it. Very flexible....

You only get one though, so you can't for example have loop block A in one spot, and then have a second loop, "b" elsewhere. That would require two loops, which it doesn't have.

It would be cool if it did though as one might want to run an external drive pedal before the amp, and an external delay or something after, all in the same patch. Can't do it though.
 
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