Dave Friedman and Steven Fryette discussing modeling

1:58:00. To each their own and there's nothing wrong with not really wanting to have anything to do with modellers. I would be interested to know if they've ever tried an Axe Fx/AX8 or are commenting based upon prejudged opinions. I did find it a bit interesting that not much was mentioned about tone, just the feel a tube amp and cabinet gives you.

If guitars in a live environment were still reliant upon stage volume alone, modellers either wouldn't stand much of a chance or would look a lot different than what we see today in order to be competitive. Since a majority of venues are going to mic'd cabinets through a PA, modellers have a definitive edge due to their convenience and versatility (most of us agree the tone is there).
 
Of course not. I really do believe that amps have their place and I'm not a big "rah rah rah Fractal Audio ROCKS Dude!" kind of guy. Both FAS and Kemper really are amazeballs, though.

I guess what surprised me was that Dave didn't have a more cogent response to a question he's probably been asked a million times. My guess is that his usual answer wouldn't be suitable for mass consumption, very much like the names of his products.
 
2112 said:
The power amp phase issues Steve talks about is really interesting.
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The same goes in front of the amp. I was building a pedalboard once running stereo delays (2 mono delays, one on each side) into two half-stacks, and one of them was out of phase when it was on. That got ugly real quick!

It's very common for pedals to flip phase internally. A lot of them do, but it's not usually a problem because 99% of guitarists run a mono rig all the way from strings to speakers.
 
Yea, I get where they are coming from, definitely.

But when you see the hoops big name acts have to jump through with their tube amp rigs you have to wonder how can that all be sustained:

AC/DC rig rundown:



Start at 15:50; the tech talks about how they went through 62 heads at rehearsals, have a dozen spares for the tour (in addition to the several they are running), a full time amp tech (who works on them everyday), and how each amp is different (modded, some not, etc.) and all of that after he shows the massive power supply/conditioner that they absolutely need to employ to keep the voltages/AC frequency stable (and optimum for tone). Sure, AC/DC can afford to do that, but they are an exception as most of us cannot expect support at that level.

Sure, big rigs look and sound amazing, but look at the money, time, and effort needed to keep a huge tube amp rig running (or even a small/moderate rig). Dave Friedman and Steven Fryette amps are likely much more stable and consistent vs old Marshalls, bias easier, etc. but man, tube amps generally require so much maintenance, are harder to move, expensive to re-tube, limited in versatility (not all), are subject to the wide variations of tubes/quality, are susceptible to AC voltage whims and effect on tone that modelers just make way too much sense for mortals like me.

Even if modelers may not feel/look exactly like a tube rig the advantages are overwhelming (and the feel/tone of the FAS offerings are truly amazing to play, and will get better). If I was Angus in his position I'd likely have a giant tube rig, but....
 
I've not used tube amps since 2014. It made my life SO much easier. Not having to haul heavy tube amps around, consistent sound every time, AFAIC I'm not missing a thing. Plus, in the end its all between the ears of the individual guitar player because 99.9% of your audience will NEVER hear the difference between a tube amp, solid state amp or modeling. Chances are that most aren't even paying attention to your guitar playing to begin with but to the singer. And the only people who do pay attention to your guitar sound tend to be other guitarists. Who I'm sad to say, as a guitarist, in my personal experience do not make for the best possible audience anyway.
 
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Imagine what angus would save on a tour, not having a full time tech, tube costs, cartage. it would be the gross national product of a small country.
 
I'm not sure I'd take advice from a guy who went bankrupt and had to give the name of his company away as it was collateral.
 
Notice how all these old dogs have to "see an amp" to hear how it sounds?

The statement that rings true though..... right out of Steve's mouth, these guys have lost their objectivity. They are "married" to their tube amp designs, and more importantly "how they look," and that's completely fine, notice how though they forget this sentiment as soon as they pass judgment on digital/modeling gear?

He goes on to say every guitar player he's talked to is "thrilled with using a tube amp, but only uses modeling to get a job done." "Your wearing a guitar and the amp's putting out this sound pressure level, it's going through you, and you feel that and you respond to that, and it gets your juices going, and modeling gear wasn't intended to do that, and it doesn't do that." Then he talks about Hendrix playing loud and stating "it's because he's trying to get through into the peoples souls." I wonder if he realizes that you can use modeling gear with a traditional power amp and traditional cabinet and feel that exact same SPL if that's what you want? I wonder if he realizes that you can get even more SPL from an FRFR system with a sub? apparently not....

Then he says he was at a show where one band had tube amps and another had digital gear, and the tube amps had weight while the digital didn't.

I have respect for these guys as they are great electrical engineers, but this is just moronic and the guy is clearly ONLY listening with his eyes as his pre-conceived judgment on modeling and digital is obviously negative.

I too have been to many a show where other bands used tube amps and I used the Axe-Fx II. My sound and tone completely crushed them in every possible way. COMPLETELY.

I've seen Testament, Eric Peterson uses a pair of Kempers, Alex Skolnick his signature tube head. Eric's sound/tone/weight whatever you want to label it was more present, more full and sounded fucking amazing. Alex could only really be heard well during his solo's when he was boosted. These are just a couple examples.

Again I have great respect for the pioneers of tube amps, but my experience is the complete opposite of what Steven is saying, and when you've actually been there and done that, it's pretty easy to call Bullshit on those that have not.
 
Matt_B_77 said:
Who is it? I missed that memo.
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Steve Freyette's claim to fame was VHT. He went around at the time telling people he "sold VHT", but that wasn't true, he lost it, as he used the name for collateral on a loan he failed to repay.

Back in my amp days I have an UltraLead Pitbull I loved and used all the time, and now I use the Freyette model on the Axe Fx a lot.

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2008cv03947/206398

Relevant section:


"In exchange for a loan in the amount of $150,000 from AXL, which VHT has not repaid, VHT agreed, inter alia, to a contingent assignment of the VHT AMPLIFICATION and VHT trademarks and the goodwill appertaining thereto. On May 7, 2008, the contingent assignment becam an actual assignment when VHT defualted on the loan. AXL subsequently recorded its ownership of the VHT AMPLIFICATION trademark and the goodwill appertaining thereto by filing the assignment in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. Despite AXL's repeated demands that VHT cease using the VHT AMPLIFICATION and VHT trademarks and transfer all the goodwill in the trademarks, VHT continues to use the VHT AMPLIFICATION and VHT trademarks. Upon information and belief, VHT's continued use of the VHT AMPLIFICATION and VHT trademarks constitues trademark infringement and unfair competition in violation of laws of the United States and the State of California...."
 
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I'm sure modeling has sold a few BE100's. They both sound like their business depends on tubes, thus it's superior. Room for everything, use what works for you and sounds best to you. I don't need some amp manufacturer to validate what I hear and know.
 
Yeah, there was a certain magic with playing a stadium with your pants flapping....been there done that. But the PAs/Monitors back then weren't up to the task. The technology continues to progress. No way I'm going back...my back and ears can't handle it!
 
I get it (but I don't really need to watch the video.)

There IS something inherently sexy about a tube amp in full flower stoopid loud. It feels good to have all that sonic goodness flowing through you... But those are really fleeting moments when you play out quite a bit. I gave up on it because:

-Carrying all that crap around to practices, gigs that inevitably have to be in one of the most uncomfortable places to have to lug gear to, either a long backstage area, through a crowd at a bar, or up a narrow flight of steps (sometimes a combination of those!) Nice if you have someone who does that for you; most don't.
-'Will it or won't it' syndrome. How will my rig sound tonight? Will the sound guy mike it with a Guitar Center bargain bin mic and it sounds like a radio with asthma. With venue variations, my tone is the same everytime I plug in.
-Tubes. Love 'em, but in between the rabbit hole of swapping them out, replacing them, and keeping spares (and fuses) with you at all times...painful.
-Space. Some places you play, the stage is...not big. I've had to put 4x12's off to the side because the stage had the floor area of a small shed (why I downsized to a vertical 2x12.)

Now, I have a 6 Space rolling rack, the MFC, and can eschew the CLR's if I like...but will bring one to put in front of me as a vocal/my mix monitor. I'm set up in 3 minutes, and hand the XLR to the sound guy for the snake. Done. Get my free beverage at the bar for the hour the drummer hooks up/mic's up.

But I do get it. Amps ARE cool. But I've been done...since 2006. I could get one of those nifty DIY vacuum tube clocks they sell to put on the rack if I need the visuals...
 
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