Cygnus vs Ares (orginally on AXE III msg board)

Wow, to my ear that is pretty conclusively better - and that's not to say that Ares doesn't sound amazing - it does. Cygnus just seems to sound wider, bigger, has more clarity. All the buzzwords basically. Can't wait!
 
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Random Hero said:
Wow, to my ear that is pretty conclusively better - and that's not to say that Ares doesn't sound amazing - it does. Cygnus just seems to sound wider, bigger, has more clarity. All the buzzwords basically. Can't wait!
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Not sure if you watched the entire clip, but watch from about 7:00 to 8:00.
 
Yeah.
Huge difference.
Stupid words, but more dimensional, 3D, richer.

They were talking about a big difference in the low end, but I heard it even more in high end clarity.
Not treble exactly I think, more like detail.

Looking forward to this!
 
When I listen blindly, I am hard pressed to identify Cygnus over Ares and watching the video, it was easier to pick out and listen again.

There is something there, yes, but not enough for me to pick out each time. That being said, the video is being watched through my $500 home theater system which probably does little to help distinguish between the Cygnus Axe 3 and the Ares counterparts on the FM3 and Axe 3.

Seems my hearing loss over the years is starting to kick in perhaps? In my pre-AX8 days, quality of the modeler shows up by the decay after a note is played. In my old Boss and Line 6 gear, there was always some sort of digital artifacts that would creep up compared to a real tube amp sound. Then there's the Gary Moore style volume knob gain control. Think Gary playing Redhouse at the Fender 50th concert. Rolling back the guitar volume and cleaning up the sound really helps determine how good the amp modeler is. Fractal in my experience with AX8 and now FM3 literally shine and it is great to see them even pursue it further. I would love to have heard some of my preferred amps (Friedman for example) with their higher gain get the comparison test with volume roll off and decay.

Would I be unable to tell the difference in a mix with other instruments added live or in studio? Not sure but regardless, FAS and their pursuit of perfect tone is the reason I'm here and quite happy to be.
 
It's subtle but all of the big changes at this point are. Looking forward to this coming to the FM3 but I might try to go back to the AxeIII soon just to enjoy the faster development
 
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I feel like Cygnus makes the amps sound less perfect and more organic which is awesome. I definitely heard a difference in the compression between the two, Cygnus seemed to breathe and be a lot more dynamic.
 
I'm impressed by the difference in dynamics, but you have to listen in mono. Otherwise there's a stereo image difference between the two recordings that (I hope) is unrelated to Cygnus. The FM3 recording is narrower. Or is this the lack of UltraRes on the FM3?

If the weird 3D effect is Cygnus, uh, count me out.
 
That's an absolutely MASSIVE difference, I can't wait to rock the AC20 model with cygnus on the FM3, I'm on 3.02 and it's already the only thing I play through... And I'm a metal only kind of guy hahaha
 
philipacamaniac said:
I'm impressed by the difference in dynamics, but you have to listen in mono. Otherwise there's a stereo image difference between the two recordings that (I hope) is unrelated to Cygnus. The FM3 recording is narrower. Or is this the lack of UltraRes on the FM3?

If the weird 3D effect is Cygnus, uh, count me out.
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Hmmm, I've never heard that UltraRes had a big effect on spacial perception. Have you?

At some point we'll be able to reverse the devices in this test, but not yet.

I suppose a simple next step would be to check identical presets in firmware 15 on both devices, see how different they sound. I hadn't heard that they were very different, as long as you used blocks that were available on both. Had you?
 
If it's new it must be better! These guys always seem angry esp. the one holding the camera; as if they're taking on the internet just ready to challenge anyone who doesn't agree with them. Interesting considering the channel name! ;)
 
I think it would be beneficial to see a comparison like this without the panning. Not everyone has identical hearing in both ears, and panning these different examples can color the perception based on which ear a listener favors.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Hmmm, I've never heard that UltraRes had a big effect on spacial perception. Have you?

At some point we'll be able to reverse the devices in this test, but not yet.

I suppose a simple next step would be to check identical presets in firmware 15 on both devices, see how different they sound. I hadn't heard that they were very different, as long as you used blocks that were available on both. Had you?
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I was not under the impression that UltraRes had an effect on the width of the sound, I'm just speculating here.

I can't remember if firmware 15 was where the FM3 and Axe Fx III last had amp modeling parity, but whenever it was, they sounded nearly indistinguishable. Even on this video, they state that the two devices sounded basically identical before the beta firmware (without providing a demo though).

Either way, there's a noticeable width / spatial difference, and that has nothing to do with the amp modeling (the amp block is mono).
 
Cliff’s notes for the Cygnus b2 release explain some of the reasons for the new firmware.

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amp_modeling_progress#Cygnus

I have an FM3 with the current firmware, and the latest Cygnus beta on my AF3, and there are subtle but audible differences when playing the same preset on the two devices, where, prior to the beta they sounded to same. Some amp models make it more obvious than others, but everything sounds even more realistic.

I really like my tube amps, but the idea of the new firmware on the smaller box has me excited to use my FM3 live instead of the amps. It’s going to be several months before it arrives I expect, but it’s definitely worth wanting.
 
philipacamaniac said:
I'm impressed by the difference in dynamics, but you have to listen in mono. Otherwise there's a stereo image difference between the two recordings that (I hope) is unrelated to Cygnus. The FM3 recording is narrower. Or is this the lack of UltraRes on the FM3?

If the weird 3D effect is Cygnus, uh, count me out.
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Yeah agree that there is something wrong here. Almost seems like some sort of phase issue in Cygnus version. This might be worth checking out further as may either be a bug in firmware or an issue on the content creator's setup.
 
Nick Barba said:
Yeah agree that there is something wrong here. Almost seems like some sort of phase issue in Cygnus version. This might be worth checking out further as may either be a bug in firmware or an issue on the content creator's setup.
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I don't hear anything "wrong" nor any indication of a phasing issue.

I do hear something that seems different in the panning but most likely that's just a problem in how the presets are setup.

If there was a general problem, those playing the Cygnus betas would (including me) have been complaining about it.
 
Sounds like AFX3 Cygnus has the cab room/air enabled and panned slightly and the FM3 Ares doesn't.

The FM3 Ares appearing to be mono and AFX3 Cygnus appearing to be stereo introduces psycho-acoustic effects that make objective listening impossible.

Glad to see you guys may be coming around from your "They are basically the same and Fractal isn't worth $1000 more" opinion from December, 2019 :)

Good video tho, I enjoy your banter and value your opinion :)

rossipedia said:
I think it would be beneficial to see a comparison like this without the panning. Not everyone has identical hearing in both ears, and panning these different examples can color the perception based on which ear a listener favors.
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I agree! I have always listened with my left ear; that is the ear that is usually towards the amp as I look down at the guitar and play.
 
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