Wish Custom MIDI message per Song

B

bkd_guitarist

Inspired
I've been using the custom MIDI message function with Presets and IA's, and it wonderful. It opens up a new realm of functionality with the MFC and Axe-FX. Here's the wish: is it possible to add a custom MIDI message field to a Song, so that the MIDI message is sent to the Axe-FX when the song is selected on the MFC?
 
When a Song is selected, it actually selects a Preset (the first in the Song by default). Since each Preset can send a MIDI message its essentially the same thing. If the Song sent a MIDI message and the song-assigned Preset also had a MIDI message sent then the behavior would likely be undesired. At the very least, it would be extraordinarily confusing for most people and a nightmare to support. I think ;-)
 
What if you set it up so that the user can enable Preset custom messages or Song custom messages, but not both?

Here's the challenge: say I have Preset 20 on the MFC calling up Preset 20 on the Axe. Song 1 of my set is at 120 bpm, so I use a Preset custom hex message that sets the tempo at 120bpm. Say the next song in my set is at 80 bpm, but also uses Preset 20 on the Axe. There's no way to change the tempo to 80 bpm without doing one of the following:

1) saving a duplicate preset on the Axe at 80bpm, or
2) using a transmit map on the MFC. This is what I do currently. Preset 21 on the MFC has a custom message that sets the tempo to 80 bpm, but it calls up Preset 20 on the Axe.

Both solutions are rather clunky...a Song-specific MIDI message would be more elegant. Hey, it's called a "Wish" list for a reason. While we're wishing, I'd also like a pony. ;)
 
:). I know exactly what you're saying. I thought that I was the heaviest user of Songs and Sets in the world - I have that very same wish. And for the same reasons. Unfortunately I don't speak for Fractal Audio but if I put myself in their shoes I'd rather spend my engineering dollars on new products (FX8/AX8) than adding features with questionable adoption numbers. If "I" were controlling the firmware I'd do it, and while I'm at it Id add the Scene # display to the LCD :)

Maybe there's an opportunity for a skunkworks firmware effort :)
 
bkd_guitarist said:
1) saving a duplicate preset on the Axe at 80bpm, or
2) using a transmit map on the MFC. This is what I do currently. Preset 21 on the MFC has a custom message that sets the tempo to 80 bpm, but it calls up Preset 20 on the Axe.

Both solutions are rather clunky...a Song-specific MIDI message would be more elegant. Hey, it's called a "Wish" list for a reason. While we're wishing, I'd also like a pony. ;)
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With 2 ways to accomplish this, I doubt that you'll get much love on this one....:encouragement:

I prefer the first method (although I resisted it at first?). A preset for each song. There are soooo many preset locations available. Why not use them?

Some of the advantages.......The preset name always matches the song, once you make the leap you are now free to make small or large tweaks to each preset/song.

Works for me anyway?
 
Moke said:
With 2 ways to accomplish this, I doubt that you'll get much love on this one.
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Possible, but those are kludgy workarounds, not solutions. Liquid Foot has this capability so it can't be that difficult.

Moke said:
A preset for each song.
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I use big, complex presets and its inefficient to maintain many instances of the same preset that are identical aside from tempo. If I use that preset for 10 songs with different tempos, and I want to make a change of some kind, now I have to change 10 presets rather than 1. A real pain. Tempos are song dependent, so it makes sense to associate a tempo with a song.
 
Yep, I totally get it. Method #2 is best work-around for your situation.

Since the intro introduction of 'Scenes', The whole song/set system in the MFC needs to be re-vamped (IMHO)

I posted a couple of wishes, but got no love?
 
Moke said:
Yep, I totally get it. Method #2 is best work-around for your situation.

Since the intro introduction of 'Scenes', The whole song/set system in the MFC needs to be re-vamped (IMHO)

I posted a couple of wishes, but got no love?
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Cliff made a comment along the lines of "we sell out of MFC's as fast as we can build them," so evidently our issues are not an impediment to sales. ;) And in fairness, they have their hands full and are doing a great job with firmware updates for the Axe-FX and new product intros. But I'm with you, I'd like to see the MFC take some meaningful steps forward in terms of functionality.
 
It's a shame really that Songs can't have their custom settings (I'm most interested in tempo).

Several songs may have the same preset in #1 slot, so saving that preset's tempo is not a solution.

using a transmit map on the MFC. This is what I do currently. Preset 21 on the MFC has a custom message that sets the tempo to 80 bpm, but it calls up Preset 20 on the Axe.
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Could you elaborate a little on what exactly you do there please? You have special presets in #1 slots that aren't really presets, but rather call different presets on the Axe and set tempo, right?
 
vangrieg said:
Could you elaborate a little on what exactly you do there please? You have special presets in #1 slots that aren't really presets, but rather call different presets on the Axe and set tempo, right?
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Say the first preset in Song #1 might be Preset #20 on both the MFC and the Axe. I save that preset on the Axe at the appropriate tempo for Song #1.

The first preset in Song #2 might also be Preset #20 on the Axe, but I need to change the tempo. To do this, I do the following:
-make Preset #21 (or any preset other than #20) on the MFC the first preset in Song #2
-map Preset #21 on the MFC to Preset #20 on the Axe by creating a custom transmit map (page 54 in the MFC manual).
-add a preset custom MIDI sysex message to Preset #21 on the MFC that changes the Axe tempo to the tempo for Song #2.

This way when I change from Song 1 to Song 2, the Axe stays on the same preset, but the tempo changes.

This thread details the exact sysex messages that set tempos on the Axe: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...7-possible-set-tempo-axe-fx-ii-via-sysex.html

It works, but as I said earlier, kind of a kludgy workaround. The ability to tie the tempo information to the song itself would be SOOOO much better. Oh, and...far be it from me to be anything but a loyal Fractal devotee, but Liquid Foot was doing this in about 2009 or so. ;)
 
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Thanks a lot, that's very helpful!

I agree, it's a very inelegant workaround, but it surely beats tapping in the beginning of each song, and should still leave the opportunity to do so if our drummer gets agitated and decides to do something faster than he should. It's having umpteen copies of each preset, and then having a nightmare changing each instance if I decide to tweak amp settings or something.
 
IMO, it would make sense to stream whatever midi message you want - and as many as you want - when you launch a preset on the MFC. I use this function extensively with a Gordius Little Giant.

When I punch up a preset, it streams PC to axe-fx, PC to DAW to cue up a backing track, note on/off to mute buttons on digital mixing board, and pitch wheel values to sliders for vocal effects mix % on digital mixing board. And anything else I might want it to.

It's not rocket science to implement, and it adds incredible functionality to the simple act of bringing up a preset.
 
Well it would help if it worked when choosing a song, not a preset. Which brings us back to the original issue, doesn't it?
 
vangrieg said:
Well it would help if it worked when choosing a song, not a preset. Which brings us back to the original issue, doesn't it?
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I can configure the mode I want in the Little Giant, preset, song or bank I believe. I do bank mode, and when I select a bank, I can configure it to auto launch a preset, and when the preset launches, it launches all the desired midi commands in a stream. Happens very quickly.
 
^^^

That's what the MFC does, in simplified form. You can configure a custom MIDI message that gets sent when the preset is loaded (just one message). And you can set it up to auto-load the first preset when a bank or song is selected. Problem is, the MIDI message is still tied to the preset, so if you use that preset in songs with different tempos, you have a problem. Tying the custom MIDI message to the song rather than the preset is a very clean solution to the issue.
 
This solution, while I thought it great at first, has its problems. One of the reasons why setting song-specific tempos is important to me is that we change tempo in different performances sometimes, it's not really set in stone. So while initial tempo setting, in a preset, is fine, but I definitely need an ability to tap faster/slower tempo. Now if I hardcode tempo in a preset, even if it's a song-specific preset, I have a problem because whatever I tap in will revert to original value when I switch between presets. I can have tempo as a global setting, but whenever I tap preset #1 in a song it'll change again.

So far the only workaround I can think of is using an alternate preset to set song tempo manually (or pedally, or whatever "by foot" is called in English). But then I'll have to forget about the ability to revert to original preset when tapping its switch a second time...

I don't have access to my Axe now, and won't have for the next 10 days or so to test it though...
 
vangrieg said:
This solution, while I thought it great at first, has its problems. One of the reasons why setting song-specific tempos is important to me is that we change tempo in different performances sometimes, it's not really set in stone. So while initial tempo setting, in a preset, is fine, but I definitely need an ability to tap faster/slower tempo. Now if I hardcode tempo in a preset, even if it's a song-specific preset, I have a problem because whatever I tap in will revert to original value when I switch between presets. I can have tempo as a global setting, but whenever I tap preset #1 in a song it'll change again.
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If you're talking about the way it is now, you're exactly right. Having the tempo tied to a preset is a huge limitation.

This is the genius of the solution I'm suggesting in my original post. If you tie the tempo to the SONG rather than any specific PRESET, it solves all these problems. It would work perfectly for the use case you mentioned. No song change = no tempo change.

Moke seems to have called it correctly, by the way. Despite the obvious, manifest, universal benefit of this solution, there doesn't seem to be much Fractal love for it. ;)
 
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Yeah, somehow most people don't see the obvious ;) or somehow are able to use scenes instead of presets. Wish I could as well. But scenes are too limiting for me.
 
I have a similar issue but instead of Tempo I am calling up a preset on a Receptor (synth module) and an Axon midi converter, and if I have a song where I need to go back and forth between presets I cannot select that first preset again without resetting my Receptor (it stops any playing Wave file and reloads the patch and resets any pedal inputs I have adjusted since the beginning of the song).

So having some midi messages available PER SONG would alleviate this since I could include program changes just after the song selection then have my first Axe-FX preset loaded and be able to go back and forth between presets without the resetting issue.

To resolve this I am thinking I will have the first preset be nothing but a "configuration" preset that sets up my other equipment. Then after loading the song (and thus that first configuration preset) I would then have to select a second preset for the Axe-FX but then I could go back and forth between the other presets and be alright (so long as I didn't accidentally hit that first preset again). It means hitting an extra button at the beginning of the song but I can probably live with that.

Would that work for you tempo guys? Assuming the Axe-FX preset you load second doesn't have a tempo designated in it.
 
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