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Custom Harmony Issues

josephyballew

Inspired
I was wanting to do a song in the key of C and do a dual lead, so when I went to custom harmony and entered the key of C. My first note that I want to change was C, so I went to C in global and made changes and nothing happened. So I played a C on guitar and adjusted C is global and nothing happened. So I went note by note in global to see what note the change was making. When I played a C on guitar and adjusted Eb and change was being made. This was not working so I started adjusting the key of the harmony. When I changed to the key of A, when I play a C and adjusted harmony chord to C all worked fine. When I first got the unit it was not like this. I am thinking an update may have changed this. No matter what Key I picked, should it not change the same note on guitar and in global in customs scales when I change keys. Finishing the song the harmony key is A and the song is in C. If I pick C then it changes the wrong keys. Maybe needs to be fixed in an update.
 

josephyballew

Inspired
Set key to A in custom shift mode to avoid this.

If you think of the custom scale as "notes 1-12" instead of A-G#, the key parameter is choosing what note actually gets treated as "1".

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/custom-scales-1-2-step-off.145045/#post-1715816
I made it work in the key of A with the song is in C. I do a 12 note change because of bent notes will work also. It makes more sense to me to change to any key and the one be the one. That way you can still use that on other songs in different keys. I have owned Eventides and Boss processor and they worked that way. You only have 32 slots for harmonies. You will run out fast if you have a lot of songs like that. You could have one global setting work for a bunch of songs with the one staying the one in any key. Just seems like common sense to me. Anyway, I made it work. Just not sure what to do if I wanted the same thing in A. I do Mademoiselle by Styx and it takes two scales to do that song because of chord changes. The 32 slots get eat up quickly.
 

Moke

Fractal Fanatic
The trick is to program the scale transposed to the key of 'A'. This is always true for Global Custom Scales. It's (briefly) mentioned in the manual.

Temporarily set the 'key' to 'A' in the Pitch block, And play the scale in the 'key' of 'A', while programming the scale.

Then you are free to set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block. The same Global Custom Scale can be used in many different 'keys', in many different scenes/presets.
 
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josephyballew

Inspired
The trick is to program the scale transposed to the key of 'A'. This is always true for Global Custom Scales.

Then you are free to set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block.
I have to use A to get a C to be a C that was changed. So if I am already have a setting of A key, how would your change to the key of A if you chord changed to A formation on your guitar?
 

bdrepko

Forum Addict
The trick is to program the scale transposed to the key of 'A'. This is always true for Global Custom Scales. It's (briefly) mentioned in the manual.

Temporarily set the 'key' to 'A' in the Pitch block, And play the scale in the 'key' of 'A', if it helps while programming the scale.

Then you are free to set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block. The same Global Custom Scale can be used in many different 'keys', in many different scenes/presets.
So you mean if the Key is G and the harmonies are +3, +4, +4 +3, etc. You would program those same intervals starting from the A instead of G. and then just change the key to G. I hope that made some sense. I am a little bit musically challenged.
 

Moke

Fractal Fanatic
So you mean if the Key is G and the harmonies are +3, +4, +4 +3, etc. You would program those same intervals starting from the A instead of G. and then just change the key. I hope that made some sense. I am a little bit musically challenged.
Yes.. All Global Custom Scale 'Shift' values need to be entered transposed to the key of 'A'. So that 'A' is the first note of the scale. Then you just set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block.

Once you get the hang of it, it makes perfect sense. If you programmed the scale in the 'key' of 'C', what would you set the pitch block to if you wanted to use that same scale (shift intervals) in a different 'key'? Fractal chose 'A' as the default 'key'. That way you can select any 'key' in the pitch block, and it can figure out the new 'shift' intervals for the new 'key' for you.
 

josephyballew

Inspired
I understand now that you have to use A to get the one to be a one. Common sense to me is all keys be the one
The trick is to program the scale transposed to the key of 'A'. This is always true for Global Custom Scales. It's (briefly) mentioned in the manual.

Temporarily set the 'key' to 'A' in the Pitch block, And play the scale in the 'key' of 'A', while programming the scale.

Then you are free to set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block. The same Global Custom Scale can be used in many different 'keys', in many different scenes/presets.
With way you are saying. I set the chord to A in the pitch block, go to custom scales and the one will be the one. So what if I want to change the key to A. It is already set to A. It is set to A now and playing a song in C. So how do you play the song in A then without reprogramming. To me this is not common sense. All chords should be the one and when you change the key, it shift all the parts to adjust to that key. I can make this work but you have to use more scales more often and you only have 32. This should be per preset too.
 

bdrepko

Forum Addict
Yes.. All Global Custom Scale 'Shift' values need to be entered transposed to the key of 'A'. So that 'A' is the first note of the scale. Then you just set the actual 'key' needed in the Pitch block.

Once you get the hang of it, it makes perfect sense. If you programmed the scale in the 'key' of 'C', what would you set the pitch block to if you wanted to use that same scale (shift intervals) in a different 'key'? Fractal chose 'A' as the default 'key'. That way you can select any 'key' in the pitch block, and it can figure out the new 'shift' intervals for the new 'key' for you.
Thanks Moke. That is clever.
 

Moke

Fractal Fanatic
I understand now that you have to use A to get the one to be a one. Common sense to me is all keys be the one


With way you are saying. I set the chord to A in the pitch block, go to custom scales and the one will be the one. So what if I want to change the key to A. It is already set to A. It is set to A now and playing a song in C. So how do you play the song in A then without reprogramming. To me this is not common sense. All chords should be the one and when you change the key, it shift all the parts to adjust to that key. I can make this work but you have to use more scales more often and you only have 32. This should be per preset too.
I wish that it was handled in the pitch block itself and stored with the preset too....
 

Moke

Fractal Fanatic
It would be easier if the note names were not shown when programming the custom scales. Think of 'A' as note 1, and 'A#' as note 2, 'B as note 3,etc.....

Since you are programming transposed in the key of 'A'. Set the pitch block to that same 'key' while programming to hear the changes in the notes as shown.

Then you are free to use that scale in any key that you wish by setting the Pitch block to that 'key' (including 'A' of course)
 
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Bakerman

Axe-Master
It is set to A now and playing a song in C. So how do you play the song in A then without reprogramming.
If you took that approach you can set the key to F#. I think what Moke is saying is you can play your part in A temporarily, while setting up the scale with key set to "A". Then set key to C and play in the actual key.

You don't really need to do that if you think of the custom scale as notes 1-12. Pretend those note names aren't there at all in the left column. Set key to C if the part is in C. Now the first shift in the scale is the "C" shift. Next one is Db, etc.
 

josephyballew

Inspired
If you took that approach you can set the key to F#. I think what Moke is saying is you can play your part in A temporarily, while setting up the scale with key set to "A". Then set key to C and play in the actual key.

You don't really need to do that if you think of the custom scale as notes 1-12. Pretend those note names aren't there at all in the left column. Set key to C if the part is in C. Now the first shift in the scale is the "C" shift. Next one is Db, etc.
So you are saying. I can set the key to A and program with my one being a one. Change the key to C and it be the same thing, Then when I change back to A, it will be an A then instead of the C I first programmed?
 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
You can set the key to the key of the part.

The first note in the custom scale table (even though it says A) will affect the note you chose as key. Play a C note if you chose C as key, adjust that first value and hear the shift amount change. Continue for remaining shift amounts while playing Db, D, Eb, E, etc.
 

josephyballew

Inspired
I get it and see the way it is, but not the best way in my opinion. All keys, the one should be a one and when you change keys it shifts all your programming to that key, and per preset. That makes sense. Cliff, I hope you are reading this. Love my unit and it is the holy grail to me. It does need minor tweaks. Cliff is always on a mission and hope he sees the logic here. Thank you guys for all of your help.
 

josephyballew

Inspired
You can set the key to the key of the part.

The first note in the custom scale table (even though it says A) will affect the note you chose as key. Play a C note if you chose C as key, adjust that first value and hear the shift amount change. Continue for remaining shift amounts while playing Db, D, Eb, E, etc.
That is the way I made it work, but still better to have every key, the one to be the one. I can hope for a change on this and per preset. I can not see this working if I actually want to changed what I programmed to the actual key of A. It is already in the pitch key of A. You can't change what the key already is. I always use custom 12 note method because of bending notes into another note. Other modes do not work unless you just want a static harmony that does not change. Most lead harmonies go between a 4th, 3rd, and a 5th, doing a solo. A scale harmony will not work for most songs. It does work for songs like Owner of a Lonely Heart, but will not work for most. A guitar player that uses a lot of custom scales for harmonies will really get this. I can not take what I just programmed and change it to A, because it is already in A. Not really. The song is in C and the programming should be in C, then you can change to what key you want. You would be surprised what harmonies will work in many keys, but it has to be a custom scale.The way it is everything would have to be transposed three semitones to change keys. So if I actually wanted to play in A, I would have to change the key to C to actually play in A. I know the way it is and just hope for a change because a play a lot of dual solos.
 
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Fredneck

Inspired
I do Mademoiselle by Styx and it takes two scales to do that song because of chord changes. The 32 slots get eat up quickly.
I do Africa by Toto and use two scales to play the synth lead. I use a horn ensemble preset by Simeon. I made a Axe III Preset that also has my bassman 412 rig as a scene with the first two for the synth scales. B Maj Pent to E Ionian.
 
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