Creative midi routing question...

C

cowmaster39

Member
Hey all!

I did some research on the Wiki and tried searching these forums, but I've yet to come up with a definitive answer. Hopefully someone has tried this, or can tell me whether or not it'll work.

Backstory / context:
I have an Axe-Fx II XL along with an MFC mk3 rig that I run via FASlink. The other guitar player in my band finally bought an AX8 after many months of convincing (<chants> ONE OF US! ONE OF US! </chants>). We recently started running our own IEMs (X32 rack) and are now using a computer for click tracks / recording the show. We want to start programming our patch / scene / effects changes using MIDI. I think I understand the MIDI programming / DAW aspect of it. I'm just confused a little bit on the most efficient method of routing.

We'll be running MIDI from our DAW out of a USB MIDI interface, into the MIDI IN port on the Axe-Fx.
With the XL, I know I can echo midi back out of the Axe and run it to the AX8. It would be a lot more convenient (shorter cable runs and less of a tripping hazard) if I could echo that MIDI out of the MFC so I can run my MIDI cable across the front of the stage to the AX8 instead of having to route around the back / side of the stage. Is this possible?


TL;DR: Is it possible to echo the signal coming into the MIDI IN port on the Axe-Fx through the MIDI OUT port on the MFC?
 
as long as your axe is on a different # then his ax8, I don't see why not. the axe fx sends the midi commands that come in thru the midi out port.
 
ThelmoRego said:
as long as your axe is on a different # then his ax8, I don't see why not. the axe fx sends the midi commands that come in thru the midi out port.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but is that echo'd out the midi outputs on the MFC as well? From what I can tell, the MFC only sends midi messages on it's own output when you hit footswitches, or use expression pedals?
 
While I don't doubt that a thru signal from the XLII should be fine, you might consider a dedicated midi thru box (e.g. Midi Solutions QuadThru). Regarding the MFC, if it does not have a midi Thru or Merge mode, then it will not work (I'm on an Ax8). It might also be merge only, meaning any changes you make at your MFC will echo to your partner's Ax8 (a potential problem).

I've had multiple instances where daisy chaining devices leads to message delays or dropped information. Also, if you're rig goes down for some random reason, your partner will still get program changes (and vice versa).
 
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jamongrande said:
While I don't doubt that a thru signal from the XLII should be fine, you might consider a dedicated midi thru box (e.g. Midi Solutions QuadThru). Regarding the MFC, if it does not have a midi Thru or Merge mode, then it will not work (I'm on an Ax8). It might also be merge only, meaning any changes you make at your MFC will echo to your partner's Ax8 (a potential problem).

I've had multiple instances where daisy chaining devices leads to message delays or dropped information. Also, if you're rig goes down for some random reason, your partner will still get program changes (and vice versa).
Click to expand...
There have also been problems reported by guys not using a Thru or Merge box as the MFC and DAW (or other external midi controller) can cause midi conflicts. These can cause the Axe Fx to lock up...

And you'd have to switch off the FASLink to use a midi merge / thru box.
 
We've daisy chained 10 or more devices via MIDI fired from a computer without issue regarding delays or corrupt messages however none of them involved the MFC. Generically IN is in, OUT reflects any re-mapping you may have done and THRU is a carbon copy of IN. You will not be harmed from having the MIDI Solutions boxes. I have a couple of 2 port thru boxes for routing because, for example, the X32 sucks at MIDI implementation and what goes into a Roland GR-55 does not come out. So these type devices have to be last in the chain or use the MIDI split boxes to branch out to their own little world.
 
I have done what you are doing and looking to do now for about the last 2 1/2 years. I'm in a 7 piece cover band and we run Ableton Live, and use midi for a variety of things, including: Midi clock to my keyboardist, program changes for a Roland E Drum brain, vocal effects modules, DMXis lighting, and for a while, AXE-FX program and scene changes. I stopped controlling my AXE with the midi about a year ago, as I had a couple of issues with it on stage in the middle of shows, so I wanted to get my guitar setup more simple and easy to troubleshoot.

You absolutely need to run a midi merge. If you try to use an expression pedal, or use your MFC at all, then you will have issues at some point. The AXE FX will get confused by multiple midi messages hitting it from 2 sources at the same time. Check this company out:

http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm

You won't be able to use FASLink anymore, and will need to go with a regular midi cable into the merge box, along with your DAW's midi signal, then out to the AXE FX. I would highly recommend putting these first in your entire midi signal chain, then using midi through on the AXE to send to the next device in the chain. If you using more than a couple, I would use a Midi Through box, rather than daisy chaining.
(NOTE: I never did it this way.... so I'm not clear on how the 2 way communication works with this method. I didn't want to deal with the wall wart at my MFC since I couldn't send power through the midi merge - one of several reasons why I stopped doing this altogether. I do think this is the way it needs to be done though.)

Another option if you only need expression pedals and not IA switches would be to not hook up the MFC, and use the 2 expression pedal jacks on the back of the AXE-FX. I have trust and control issues, so I could not get down with that either.

We use a merge at the keyboard rack, and I have a midi through in my main stage control rack that feeds midi from my Macbook via a Motu interface out to all the various places it has to go.

You would think with 7 people, we would not need Ableton, but the power we have is pretty epic. There is very little we can't recreate on stage now! Also with this many people and our huge song catalog, the click (and sometimes vocal cues) in our ears is a huge help and we can learn songs super fast this way. Our system works really well, and is reliable.
 
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