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"Crash" sound/distortion on attack

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'isolation'. If you mean like in a booth with me in a control room, then no. I just had the amps about three feet away from me, with me sitting on the floor in front of them.

If this is the problem, why not with higher-output pickups? Why does reducing brightness reduce it? You'd think clipping is clipping, and since low frequencies require more energy to cleanly reproduce, they'd clip first?
Isolation means in a booth with you in the control room. When the amp is in the room with you you don't hear the pick transient distorting for a variety of reasons, the most important being that you are not listening the same way a mic hears the speaker. You are typically off-axis and not two inches away from the cone.

High output pickups have less high frequency response. Clipping is amplitude dependent. A guitar amp boosts high frequencies therefore those clip first.
 

666was999

Power User
Sounds pretty much like strings hitting the frets.
I guess your guitar is passive, no almost empty battery inside it?

So another question is why you don't have that nasty sound with other gear.
My guess (besides checking the frets, checking how straight or bent the neck is and checking the hight of the bridge and the trem):
Turn your system loud enough so you don't need to pick that hard. With a real twin cranked all up you would never dare to pick that hard, right? :)

I've been once running into a similar problem. Our female singers didn't wanted the guitars to be too loud in the rehearse (chickas, you know), so we both, the other player and I, turned our volume down.
The one with the real amp got the problem that his amp didn't sound good anymore so low.
My Axe-Fx still sounded good...but I noticed that I startet to pick and act different. Playing and volume depends on each other somehow.
 
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jw3571

Inspired
I'm getting something similiar that I posted a few weeks ago. I'm getting when gain is down once the distortion is increased you can't hear it anymore. Some people thought it was digital distortion, i've tried the things that were suggested but I'm still getting the noise.
 

maschoff

Experienced
@AdmiralB: I have a strat with pretty low action that exhibited this issue. I recently changed to Cobalt strings and the issue became even more noticeable.
 

grape

Experienced
First, people missed the "Crack". Now, people want less "Crash". <<<FACEPALM>>>
I don't think this is the same issue. The "crack" debate was about the pick attack and resulted in the dynamics settings in the AxeFX. Since it's adjustable, people who missed it have it and those that don't dial it out.

The "crash" issue has to do with edge of break up in the power amp.
 

shemihazazel

Power User
I don't think this is the same issue. The "crack" debate was about the pick attack and resulted in the dynamics settings in the AxeFX. Since it's adjustable, people who missed it have it and those that don't dial it out.

The "crash" issue has to do with edge of break up in the power amp.
It was a joke. This doesn't sound like a power amp issue at all. It sounds like lousy guitar action.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
Here are a couple patches. One is the factory Double Verb patch with no changes other than bright on, treble and bass up.

The other is based on an HBE with very low drive (about 1.6) and master (about 3.4).
 

Attachments

tomc3084

Experienced
@AdmiralB: I have a strat with pretty low action that exhibited this issue. I recently changed to Cobalt strings and the issue became even more noticeable.
Yeah, I have this issue and I use cobalt strings. My action is pretty low though.
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
I'm finding that most clean patches exhibit a kind of "crashing" sound on initial attack. It only happens with single-coils or other very low output pickups (Filter 'trons, too), and only when the note is picked or plucked pretty hard.

Most all factory clean patches seem to do it; Fender (Double Verb example here) and Vox worst, and it's magnified a LOT if the setting is on the edge of/includes a little breakup (sample here). Oddly, the Shiva clean, for example, doesn't seem to do it.

It seems to be in the power amp part of the sim. If I turn power amp modeling off, it goes away. The only other way I've found to eliminate it is to go pretty far CCW on transformer match (about 9:00). Reducing treble reduces the effect, but only somewhat.

Doesn't seem to matter which firmware - getting it with 9.02, 10.02, and 10.05. Does it regardless of source of patch, factory or otherwise.


None of my other modelers do this, nor do my "real" Fender and Vox amps.

Any ideas?
I used to get that same sound with my Triaxis on the Lead 1 channels; Green, Yellow and Red.
I guess it has to do with the the gain staging in some types of preamp designs.
The clean channels and the Lead 2 channels did not do the same thing.
Seems to be related to certain types of mid-gain type circuits.
Try a different amp sim.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
I fired up the Super and miced it, and long story somewhat less long, Cliff's right - the real amp does do it too.

With the caveat that the real amp had to be a lot louder than the patch - the amp didn't do it until '5' on the volume, and the Axe will do it as low as about 1.5.

But otherwise, yes, it's a real artifact. Couldn't test the AC-30 as its owner already took it back. But I see no reason to doubt that the results there would be similar.

Odd that none of my other (admittedly older, and cheaper) modelers do this, but I reckon - like the ghost notes that Line 6 used to model - that's part of the detail.

On a tangent, it sure brought back (bad) memories of what a hassle micing/moving/recording/moving/micing/recording, repeat ad nauseum is.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Super Reverb model is "Diaz Modded". IOW, I pulled V1. This gives the amp a lot more gain so it's not surprising you're getting breakup at around 1.5. You can un-mod the model by turning down the MV Trim to around 0.5.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
Actually I was comparing to the Double Verb model. While we're in full disclosure mode, the Super I'm using is in a head cab and I'm driving a pair of 12s with it. But the notion still carries, no two amps are the same, tapers vary, and so on.
 

SarasotaSwing

Experienced
The Super Reverb model is "Diaz Modded". IOW, I pulled V1. This gives the amp a lot more gain so it's not surprising you're getting breakup at around 1.5. You can un-mod the model by turning down the MV Trim to around 0.5.
Well that explains a number of things. Good to know.
 

grape

Experienced
It was a joke. This doesn't sound like a power amp issue at all. It sounds like lousy guitar action.
Ok. I didn't catch the joke. It does sound like power amp distortion (bad) to me and it sounds like Cliff is saying it is and that amps do it as well. Knowing this, I'll have to try much lower gain settings than I'm used to... or play with eq before the power amp to limit the high frequency content before it distorts.
 
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